This episode features an interview with Chris Hsu. Chris is the Co-founder and CEO of Zibo, a hypergrowth VC-backed company that provides independent landlords best-in-class property management software and a host of financial services they can leverage to run their properties. On this episode, Chris talks about the leadership lessons he’s learned over 27+ years in business, what it really means to graduate from West Point, and why it’s always important to answer the call when opportunity comes knocking.
“The folks that have worked for me and gone on to do amazing things—far more successful than me—is what I'm most proud of in my life. And part of that is inspiring them and pushing them and believing in them, and that's leadership.” — Chris Hsu
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Episode Timestamps:
*(2:35) - Chris’ father’s influence on Army+West Point
*(5:40) - Character defining moments at West Point
*(11:50) - Successfully transitioning from West Point to the private sector
*(13:45) - Advice to new grads
*(17:00) - Career transitions and how to pivot
*(19:45) - Answering the call and making an impact
*(24:30) - Being the person that people think of first
*(27:30) - The Sitrep - The Situation Report
*(27:45) - Running Zibo
*(30:40) - How Zibo came to life and the idea behind it
*(35:15) - Customer Acquisition Strategies
*(38:55) - How the pandemic affected Zibo
*(44:30) - The future of Zibo
*(47:50) - SOP - The Standard Operating Procedure
*(52:30) - The Importance of Giving Back and parting advice
Links
Connect with Chris on LinkedIn
Connect with Old Grad Club on LinkedIn
[00:00:36] Eddie: Hello and welcome to On Point. This episode features an interview with Chris Hsu. Chris is the Co-founder and CEO of Zibo a hyper-growth VC-backed company that provides independent landlords best-in-class property management software, as well as a whole host of financial services. They can leverage to run their properties.
[00:00:51] Chris currently sits on the board of several companies and has worked his way through general management was previously a McKinsey consultant managing director at KKR. And was [00:01:00] recruited by Meg Whitman to be the COO of Hewlett Packard prior to spearheading the HPE/HP split. He graduated third in his class at west point in 1992 before branching armor and received his MBA from Northwestern.
[00:01:12] On this episode, Chris talks about the leadership lessons you've learned over 27 plus years in business. What it really means to graduate from west point and why it's always important to answer the call. When opportunity comes knocking. Chris has had an incredibly dynamic career and is an inspiration for many of us that are part of the technology investing ecosystem.
[00:01:30] Before we jump into it, feel free to check us out on LinkedIn and instagram@oldgradclubandonlineatoldgradclub.com. Now please enjoy this interview.
[00:01:44] So welcome to On Point I'm Eddie Kang, founder of the old grad club and your host for today, I'm joined by a very special guest. Chris Hsu, Chris, how are you today?
[00:01:53] Chris: Doing great Eddie. I just, uh, being part of the old grad club is taking me for a second. I [00:02:00] gotta, I gotta pause for it. Well,
[00:02:02] Eddie: Chris, it's like a it's it's an honor to have you on.
[00:02:05] Um, a lot of my friends have worked for you in different capacities. We're super excited to hear about CBO your career path through general management business school, private equity being in the C-suite of one of the largest companies in the world. All of the dynamic areas that you've grown in each of those different fields is an inspiration for a lot of people in a lot of different fields.
[00:02:26] So we should get started because we've got a ton of questions. So taking it back from like kind of the origins you've mentioned in previous interviews, the positive influence that your dad has had on your decision to join army west point. Can you take us through that story?
[00:02:39] Chris: Yeah. Eddie, you know, it's funny, my father never ever said, you know, Hey, you need to go to west point.
[00:02:44] In fact, we didn't really know what west point was. And what he said was that he raised me and my family, uh, my brothers and sisters with this mindset, that freedom wasn't right. And that he fought his whole [00:03:00] adult life. And even when he left home at 15, when the communists came down from the mountains and, and China, that freedom wasn't free and that we had a responsibility to defend, uh, our, our freedom.
[00:03:14] And that's what really got me interested in serving. And then as I got into high school, I became really interested in leadership and, you know, in through the study of history, Found out about west point. And then one of my really good friends brothers went to west point and I met him and I came home and told my dad, Hey, look, I'd really like to go to west point.
[00:03:35] And he was super supportive. We didn't know anyone. We were lower middle-class uh, in Louisiana. We didn't have contacts with Congressmen's or senators or any of that. So we just started writing letters and he, he did that for me and really encouraged me to, to, to take that up. And that's, that was the Genesis of, of, of wanting to go to west point and pursue that.[00:04:00]
[00:04:00] Gotcha.
[00:04:00] Eddie: And so for a quick background, so your dad is from Taiwan. It sounds like
[00:04:04] Chris: he came from mainland China. So he was born from in central China. He went to Taiwan, uh, in route to the United States as a refugee from the, you know, when the Goldman dong and Jenga Shaq's army lost the civil war in 1949 and spent a decade in Taiwan, uh, and then, and then made his way to the United States for his education.
[00:04:28] Eddie: Gotcha. Super cool. And so you, you know, at west point you studied math, economics, mechanical engineering, and then you were a tanker during your time at west point. What are you thinking at all about your future civilian career?
[00:04:40] Chris: Not really. I mean, you know, I didn't, uh, I, I actually intended at west point to be a career military officer, you know, I was totally focused on, you know, service to the country.
[00:04:53] And whatever capacity that, that brought it self I did was really [00:05:00] into mathematical economics because I felt like intellectually, it was one of the most challenging curriculum that you could take at west point, you know, ended up doing quite well there and had a, a site to go back and teach. At west point in the social sciences department in particular in economics.
[00:05:18] And I thought that was going to be the path that I would take in my career. And then who knew after
[00:05:23] Eddie: that? Gotcha. So in last west point question, but you're quoted as saying, you know, I would say west point was probably the thing that most shaped my character and create an opportunity for me that I would not have had otherwise.
[00:05:35] And frankly kind of made me a citizen of the world and really opened up my mind to what the world was really about. Uh, what character shaping moments. If you can look back on your kind of cadet career, really stick out to you and have had an effect across the different stages of your
[00:05:48] Chris: life. It's a great question.
[00:05:50] And, and that quote, uh, I can't remember when I said that, but so true and really reflects how I think about things. I mean, look, I grew up as a kid in [00:06:00] Baton Rouge, Louisiana, who didn't really think about going to college outside of the state of Louisiana. I mean, I, you know, applied. Two lane two, uh, LSU go tigers and, uh, and to west point and, you know, had I not gotten into west point, I would have gone to school in Louisiana.
[00:06:19] And so for me, When I got to west point and began the study of world history at a place that has shaped world history and truly learned about military history, social sciences, economics, it completely opened my view of the world and, you know, gave me opportunities to travel all over the world. I played rugby in England and in Canada as a member of the rugby team, I led the student conference on United States.
[00:06:50] Um, my senior year where we brought people from all over the top colleges in the United States to really think about and study global [00:07:00] issues. You know, those are things that I would have never had the opportunity to do. Had I known. Gone to west point. And, um, it really truly opened my eyes to the world and the, and becoming a world citizen.
[00:07:13] I met people listen to speeches of some of the world's greatest leaders. And that really, really shaped me from an, from an intellectual perspective and just an exposure perspective. And then I think for my character shaping d'you, I think anyone who goes to the military academies. West point in particular, I would emphasize, um, endures your real hardship, mental, physical, emotional hardship, and this feeling of being inadequate, like completely inadequate.
[00:07:45] So yeah. Our total stud in your high school, you know, captain of your team, you know, one of the top people academically in your school, everybody knows you. That's everybody who goes to west point. Literally everyone, what I just described as [00:08:00] every single person who shows up on the same day. And then all of a sudden you're looking at all these people who were top of everything and you're one of them and you just have this feeling like, oh my goodness.
[00:08:13] I don't know if I. Succeed here. And then, you know, they put you through super challenging tests and you really learn what you're capable of as a human being, but probably more importantly, what you're capable of as a team, because you're 40. With others, two really challenging situations. And the only way that you survive and thrive is by working as a member of the team.
[00:08:43] And by the way, in those teams are highly diverse and they've been diverse from, you know, the day that I was at west point. And I just think that that experience over and over and over again is what shapes your character.
[00:08:57] Eddie: Yeah. I can attest to a lot of the, um, [00:09:00] feeling inadequate at west point. I. Remember, I think I had had some, my sophomore, my, my yuckier, my roommate was had qualified for like Beijing.
[00:09:08] One of my roommates, um, in, I think it was my cower first year was like a road scholar. I mean, I just feel like, and it doesn't matter what aspect it is to be in a cadet. There's always somebody who's doing something really, really amazing. And the bar is high, which is great.
[00:09:23] Chris: And Eddie, the thing that they do that I don't know if they still do, but I'll never forget.
[00:09:27] The first time I took a test, like a really hard test. I think it was chemistry. And, um, you went to the classroom to see how your you did on the test. This was kind of before internet and there was a, a sheet of paper posted on the wall with everyone's score from highest to lowest.
[00:09:47] Eddie: And it's one of my favorite bands.
[00:09:49] I love that transparency. It was
[00:09:51] Chris: so true. It's parent, same thing with the physical fitness test or any test, it was completely public. And it, [00:10:00] and you know, you knew where you stood at all points and times, and it created this sense of intense desire to continuously improve. No, at least it did. It did to me.
[00:10:12] I mean, I, I, if I was second or third on a test, I was like, what, what happened? Yeah. I didn't even look at the grade anymore.
[00:10:20] Eddie: Bob and Bob, McDonald's our first guest. He's got a funny saying that, you know, if given enough time he would have been able to get to the top of his class. He just ran out of time.
[00:10:28] But, um, but what I found by interviewing. And like successful grads is like, geez, that competitive aspect is actually what, what probably makes them smile and like kind of brings back like great memories of, of west point. Cause like there's perhaps not as clear a structure once you leave on like that, like how to measure in some ways.
[00:10:48] Well, and
[00:10:48] Chris: the other thing too, Eddie, that, that I think is really remarkable is, um, you know, and I've been talking to a number of kids, high school kids about this lately. No matter what your [00:11:00] background is, no matter who your parents are, no matter how much money you come from or how dirt poor your family is when you get to Westport.
[00:11:09] Everyone dresses the same. Everyone has exactly the same equipment. Everyone has everything the same. You are put on the absolute base level. And the only thing that defines your success at west point is meritocracy. It's how well you do on a physical fitness tests on that academic tests, on your leadership evaluation.
[00:11:29] That is the unbelievable equalizer that I don't think a lot of kids who live in the world today understand that if they ever will. To be put on the base level with everyone else and be tested and evaluated based on performance. That's the place to do
[00:11:46] Eddie: it. It's truly special, really special. And, and so, you know, transitioning a bit, um, when you got into the private sector, so you went straight to general mills and then you went to get your MBA after that.
[00:11:56] How did you think about that transition? You know, obviously like you [00:12:00] did great at west point and I'm sure you were a hell of a tank commander. Um, and then you go in the private sector, you're working at general mills. Like what what's going through your mind at that point in life.
[00:12:09] Chris: Yeah. So it's funny, you know, I think whenever you're making big transitions out of the military, one thing that I would tell you, unless you go to business school straight out of the military, you really have no clue.
[00:12:21] I mean, you really have no idea. You're getting into. And I think in today's day and age, maybe a little bit different because LinkedIn and everything is so transparent. There's all these great institutions, like one, I'm an advisory board member of called commit that really helped people make those transitions, uh, and figure out what's on the other side for me, I called my best friend from.
[00:12:45] From west point, my armor officer roommate from the armor officer basic course, and he was valedictorian of our class and I said, Hey, he had already gotten out and I'm like, Hey, tell me what it's like, what should I do? He's like, look. [00:13:00] You can go straight out of the military and go into a post MBA role, you know, and there are three companies that hire through this head on are called Cameron Brooks, it's general mills, Kraft, and P and G.
[00:13:13] And they hire people directly into brand management roles. Brand management is just like the army. You learn how to. Um, uh, lead across functional teams. And I, that was it like, literally, that was the advice I got and I made my decision right then and there. And that's how I went about my career selection.
[00:13:33] So little bit of serendipity, a little luck and a little bit of just like listening and trusting and believing in what my friends were telling me.
[00:13:42] Eddie: So, you know, let's just say. You meet a young grad 27, 28 years old, you know, just got back from a couple of deployments. What's your advice? Like same advice, different advice?
[00:13:51] Like what, how do you think about the world today versus before when you got out?
[00:13:55] Chris: Well, look, I think everyone's different and I think the whole world of [00:14:00] entrepreneurship, as an example, is opened up to service members and, and to academy grads in a way that it never ever was when I was coming out of the military.
[00:14:09] My biggest advice would be regardless of what you do. Decide to do, you know, number one choose. Well, you know, and what do I mean by that? I've, I've done a lot of work with that's coming out of the military in one of the, I think most troubling things that I've seen is folks making decisions, not based on where they want their career to go, but.
[00:14:33] Based on this feeling of guilt that I've been deployed in a way for my family. And, you know, therefore I'm going to choose something that gets me closer to my family and that's all fine. Like, I mean, I'm all for balance and family and everything else. But what I tell these cadets is are these, these guys is if you don't pick a career, That is fulfilling and challenging.
[00:14:55] You've been at the top of your game in the military, you've been working your tail off. You've [00:15:00] been pushing the envelope and it may sound good to like go to, uh, uh, you know, go to the town that you grew at, grew up in that's in rural part of Kentucky and just try and make ends meet. But one year in you're going to be like, what the heck did I do with my time?
[00:15:17] Like, why am I not living up to my potential? And Joe, I just say, choose well, choose something that is going to allow you to balance family with, with something that's really going to stretch you and give you a fulfilling career because I've, I've seen people, my classmates, some of the most challenged, talented one, they made decisions like that.
[00:15:38] And 20 years later, you know, they're still. And, um, and, and regretting it somewhat. So I'd say choose wisely. Uh, secondly is just, there's no substitute for hard work. There's no shortcuts. There's no substitute for hard work. Um, and, uh, you know, work hard, make sure that people know you're working hard and, [00:16:00] um, uh, ask for help, help others and ask for help and build a network.
[00:16:05] I mean, those are the things I would say. I wish somebody had told me when I, when I got out, you know, I always felt like it was me against the world. And it's not, there's a lot of people out there that you're not even aware of that are willing and able to help you and counsel you and, and, and help your career.
[00:16:23] So, you know, those are some of the things just up top, top of my mind that I think of when I want to think about telling a young person thinking about a trans. Yeah, that's
[00:16:33] Eddie: huge. And that's part of the reason why we started this old grad club is first off. Like people don't know, sometimes people don't hear about the stories like yours or, or, uh, you know, we've had Bob McDonald we've recorded with, uh, yeah.
[00:16:45] You know, last week with a gentleman named Frank Finelli who started the aerospace and defense practice at Carlyle. Like all these really cool stories, but in, unless you kind of hear about it, What people have done, how they did it and what their thought process was. I think you can really sell yourself kind of [00:17:00] short.
[00:17:00] Um, and if you're not in that trajectory, you kind of, it's really hard to catch up a little bit, but you've had an incredible trajectory. So general mills, you, you go to Kellogg and you start at McKinsey. You, you have a fantastic career there. Prior to making what I believe is a pretty hard switch from, from consulting into private equity.
[00:17:18] And so can you take us through some of those career transitions? What were the ones that were most pivotal and what allowed you to kind of do that strategically and successfully? The key points that really made, you know, your career,
[00:17:30] Chris: maybe back kind of bridging the two questions, the previous question and this one, you know, I'd say that.
[00:17:35] One thing that I've found worked for me. And again, everyone's careers, very different. Bob McDonald is an example, super successful, but I think he got out of the military and went to P and G and had a 30 plus year career at P and G. You know, my career has been, I've had eight different fundamental career changes.
[00:17:55] And so everyone kind of, uh, makes her own path. But for [00:18:00] me, what I would say. Was probably the thing I look back on, there were two things and actually, you know, I always say, when people ask me, what was, what made you successful? And I said, three things. One is long hours. And I already mentioned that hard work.
[00:18:15] Like I always do. My tail off and just never quit. And they're like that. I've heard that
[00:18:22] Eddie: through the people that work for you too
[00:18:27] Haney and, uh, Jerry Varnado, who two are two of my best friends, by the way. And they're like, Tricia. He's a little bit of a mad man.
[00:18:35] Chris: I do work hard and I do, let's say expect people around me to work hard. And I tell people that when they joined my teams, I'd usually generally said, you're going to work harder than you ever have in your life.
[00:18:45] And you're going to learn more than you ever have in your life. But I lived. Motto. Um, and it's not because I feel any like, compelling need to work. I just love it. Like, I just love the content. I love the people [00:19:00] and I just love doing it. And so, you know, long hours leadership, like finding ways to get people to do things like those guys more than they believe they could do themselves.
[00:19:12] I mean, they've. The folks that have worked for me and gone on to do amazing things far more successful than me is the thing that I'm most proud of in my, in my life. And, you know, part of that is, is inspiring them and pushing them and believing in them and that's leadership. And I think, you know, that's the second one and the last one is just luck.
[00:19:34] I mean, honestly, it's a lock, you know, sometimes you, you end up in the right place at the right time and somebody. You know, cause you're Nate and when they call your name, you step up and you hit it out of the park. I have, my daughter is example. She was upset last year because she joined a new soccer team and she spent most of the time on the bench.
[00:19:55] You know, my question to her was number one, are you demonstrating that you're working your butt [00:20:00] off in practice and that you want to play. And number two, when your name gets called, do you go out there and make money? That's it like, and so, you know, when you're lucky and you get that call make an impact.
[00:20:12] Eddie: Yeah. That's uh, that's awesome. And some of those calls where some of those calls perhaps, you know, go into KKR from McKinsey, w was that.
[00:20:21] Chris: He was in fact, you know, it was just, you remember what I said about, you know, young people like build that network. My network was good and I didn't know it, and I hadn't really fostered anything.
[00:20:33] I really hadn't invested in it. And I'm, by the way, I see. People today, young people who do such a good job of building their network. And I just am so impressed. I didn't do that. I literally just believe that if I worked hard, good things would happen. And, you know, and, and, and I guess in a way that, that, that did work out, but you know, a buddy of mine that I'd worked with at, uh, McKinsey, we never worked directly [00:21:00] together, but we were in kind of a forum.
[00:21:02] And he saw me present stuff that I had worked on and vice versa. He left to go to KKR a year earlier and you know, I didn't know him that well. Um, I knew he had left to go to KKR, but I didn't really know a lot about private equity. Um, when they were looking to hire another operating partner, he called me and it sounded really good.
[00:21:25] And, you know, I, um, I threw my hat in the ring and, and, you know, six months later and 30 interviews later and, you know, which is what it is.
[00:21:34] Eddie: Wow. It's a really
[00:21:35] Chris: 30 interviews. Oh yeah. Interview with everyone in every partner, uh, in north America, except for the two founding partners, George, uh, Roberts and Henry Kravitz, I guess my wife always says she's German and she's very direct.
[00:21:49] And she's always said, well, I guess they're just not that sure about it.
[00:21:54] Eddie: Well, it seems like they became sure of you. Cause I mean, you had quite the tenure there and, um, and it [00:22:00] sounds like you wrote the very top of that organization prior to perhaps getting another call that you, that you answered.
[00:22:06] Chris: Yeah, it was actually interesting.
[00:22:08] That call was from Meg Whitman at HP. And. Yeah, that was honestly through a classmate from west point of my brothers. And, uh, yeah, a guy who's a total stud Todd Morgan fellow. You should have him on the show is the CFO at Pinterest and you know, Todd and I knew each other through my brother and through guys that I had served with in the military and we were, we were friends and acquaintances.
[00:22:36] And at one point in time, we talked about, you know, starting something together. Yeah, private equity type deal. And Todd, uh, Meg was, was mentioning, needing a senior operating partner to help her come and really help transform HP. And Todd had, uh, mentioned to her me about me. And, uh, and then he said, Hey, would you be interested in meeting her?
[00:22:59] [00:23:00] And I said, well, for sure, I would love to meet her. I've always admired her from the days of her early eBay days. I always remember looking up to her as an unbelievable leader of business and a leader of character. And I, uh, and I'd love to meet her. And, you know, I didn't even have a resume at that point in time.
[00:23:19] Yeah, and we met and, uh, you know, we shared a common philosophy about leadership and, and really that was it. And she, you know, after the first time we met after about two hours, uh, on a Saturday at her house, she asked me to join our team. And I said, well, I think I probably gotta to meet the team first. It sounds like the opposite
[00:23:39] Eddie: of your experience.
[00:23:41] Chris: Perhaps. Yeah. Meg is very decisive. There's no question. But, um, but yes. Um, yeah, so that was, again, another person in my network who, you know, I built a really good relationship with over time and that opportunity arose from that. And, uh, yeah, so it was a, [00:24:00] it's an interesting theme. Now that you're asking these questions, I'm thinking about how they whole, all these things.
[00:24:04] I'm just
[00:24:05] Eddie: trying to piece it together as well. So it seems like there was always some type of role open or a conversation to be had somebody thought of you. You know, I'm sure that that person who thought of you could have thought of a lot of different people, but for whatever reason, whether it was to join KKR or to join Meg and do one of the largest business trans transformations, and you know, the past decade, that is the split of HPE and HP and all of that jazz, they thought of you.
[00:24:32] What do you think they thought of you that made you the person. Was it the hard work? Was it the brains? I mean, you know, I hope that didn't come off. Like, you know, you're not deserving, obviously you are, but yeah,
[00:24:44] Chris: yeah, yeah, no, no, no, no. It's Hey, listen, I, listen. I think the third point that I made earlier about luck is honestly, I think I am lucky and, um, I [00:25:00] would say.
[00:25:01] You know, one thing all the way back to the days that I was at west point. And you know, my days in the army is I've always been known for someone that can make stuff. Um, and you know, part of that's leadership, part of it's mental toughness, part of it is just conviction that if there's a mission to be done, that we can do it and convincing others that we can do it.
[00:25:24] And I mean, the stuff we did at HP was UN godly. I mean, it was, it was really tough stuff. And, you know, I think we just believed that we could do it. We put resources against it and just started chopping wood and got it done. And I think that's probably the thing that, you know, I would tell young people as well is, look, don't just talk about stuff.
[00:25:51] Like making it happen is a, is a distinctive skillset. You don't, I mean, I don't know. I guess you like some leadership [00:26:00] books. You, you, you can see that as a characteristic, but like, it is truly, if you can make stuff happen, you can do things in lots of different contexts and. You know, making stuff happen, you can't do stuff by yourself.
[00:26:13] So you always need to have a team. I mean, I, you know, right now at Zebo we have roughly 50 people and, you know, my team, they're the ones that make it happen. You know, I help inspire them and, and, you know, kind of set direction for the company and a hire, try and hire the right people and build the right culture.
[00:26:32] But the team is who does everything. I mean, I can't can't write code. They wrote it. Piece of code and deployed it and fixed it. And, you know, my team is the ones talking to our customers and making, building trust with the customers and selling them stuff. And, you know, I think that's to the nature of being a leader is being able to inspire people and get to get stuff done.
[00:26:56] And when you're earlier in your career, it's about [00:27:00] demonstrating that you can get stuff done and you can bring people along, uh, along the road.
[00:27:05] Eddie: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You know, you're, you're quoted in a previous interview saying, um, you know, entrepreneurship is not about the idea. It's about taking the idea of shaping it into something that actually works, you know, building a company and a culture, being able to pivot and push through those things that are remarkably challenging.
[00:27:21] It's a lot of, kind of what you just mentioned onto the next segment. Or the situation report in this segment, we'll dive into what our guest is focused on today and how their vision is transforming the future of industry in society. Um, when you think about where you're at today with Zebo, what are some of those things that you're pushing through?
[00:27:42] You've got a team of 50, it seems like you've gone through a couple of great rounds of funding. You're tackling a huge market. What are the challenges on the day-to-day right
[00:27:51] Chris: now? Yeah, it was funny. I just got off a meeting, a call with my leadership team. Just before this. And, you know, we have a [00:28:00] persistent issue that impacts customer service, and I won't be specific about what it is cause it, yeah, but it's, we, you know, we have a network of partners.
[00:28:09] What we've done is we've built a one-stop shop financial services platform for independent landlords, and that's a huge space to your point. There's 8 million. Independent property owners, landlords in the United States who have somewhere north of 60 million tenants in their properties. So it's just a humongous space.
[00:28:31] And what we do is provide the landlords, the tenants and the, the, the vendors of the landlords, a one-stop shop for financial services, where they can transact easily with each. But in order to do that, we built a network of a bank. So we have a full service commercial bank. That's a Zebo bank. And then we have a, um, payments platform that we like square did for the local mom and pop coffee shop on the corner.
[00:28:58] We essentially have enabled [00:29:00] landlords to. Credit cards and debit cards and all that stuff. We'll keeping all of those things working every day over and over for every transaction is remarkably challenging and we've had some systemic issues. You know, we just, our T team just can't seem to solve. And it's some internal, some external with partners, but it has a major impact on customer experience and, you know, really just like never accepting that that's okay.
[00:29:33] You know, as an example, like if a customer's having a bad experience because of something that one of our partners is doing, that we don't control, then we need to either fix that with that partner, get transparency, that problem. So we can solve it real time. Or we need to figure out a solution to go around that partner and create a great world-class customer experience.
[00:29:55] And so it's like those little things are the important things, right? [00:30:00] Because you know, it's a small technology issue somewhere that we just can't figure out, but those things you just can never let go of because it has a meaningful impact on our customer experience. And that's an example of just like figuring out and focusing on an issue and just hammering it until it gets through.
[00:30:18] Eddie: Um, I I've complete confidence that whatever issues that those are, they're going to be worked out. Um, and so when it comes to
[00:30:26] Chris: I do too, it's just a matter of if it's going to be on my timeline or somebody else's timeline.
[00:30:32] Eddie: Well, your timeline was yesterday. I'm sure. So, um, when it comes to, uh, Zibo to begin.
[00:30:38] It's so, you know, you just gave us a little bit of an overview. Is this something that you wanted because you own some property and you were thinking it's a mess with, you know, having to deal with all these tenants that, and their rents and like the returns of the security deposits and XYZ, whereas we're H how did this come about?
[00:30:55] Yeah. So,
[00:30:55] Chris: um, it's interesting. Did I want it? No, because it didn't know it was [00:31:00] possible. And when I started becoming a landlord 21 years ago, it wasn't possible. Um, Uh, it's a little bit, like I always described to my team, the experience that I had for the first time with Uber in New York city, I was in New York business trip.
[00:31:17] And I don't know if you've ever been in New York and you hail a cab, you call it, you know, back in the old days, you'd call it cab service. They'd say, oh yeah, something's on the way. You have no idea when it's going to get there, you just stand there and it could be raining. It could be snowing. It'd be freezing cold, which is what I always remember about New York.
[00:31:36] And then a cabbie there shows up in 20 minutes or not, and you call back and they're like, oh yeah, it's on its way. And then it shows up and you get in the cab is dirty. The cab driver's rude. They drop you off. And you know, you say, Hey, look, I don't have cash and give them a credit card. And they're like, I don't accept credit cards.
[00:31:54] And you're like, The window says credit card on it. And that's why I got in. And you have this [00:32:00] just horrific experience. And then I remember hearing about Uber and I said, well, let me try it. I downloaded it. I hit the thing. And all of a sudden it matched me with the driver and I was like, what? And it said it will be there in 10 minutes.
[00:32:12] And then I was like, what? And I could see where it was. And then it showed up when it said it was going to show up. Then I got in and the person was super friendly and the car was super clean because I was going to rate it. You know, I didn't know I was going to write it, but you know, like, and then I got out of the car and they were like, thank you very much.
[00:32:29] I really appreciate you riding with me and I didn't have to do it. It was just happened automatically. And I was like, wow. And the reason I bring that up is because what we're trying to create for that independent landlord is, is we're trying to solve the pain points by providing them with a solution that they didn't even necessarily know existed.
[00:32:51] And then when they get on that solution, they're they one the Zebo they think, oh my goodness, how did I do this before? And things like collecting [00:33:00] security, deposits, keeping track of security deposit, keeping them separated from your operating account so that you don't think you have more cash than you really do, because that's really a liability.
[00:33:11] And then making it super easy. You don't even need the tenants forwarding address as an example, to return their security deposit when you've gone through and you've done your out checking inspection, they're already loaded in the payment system. You say return security deposit, say the amount. You can put a memo and say what was deducted.
[00:33:29] They have to accept the security deposit. So you get notification and it's accepted. So check you've checked that box and boom, they decide the tenant decides how they get paid. And we route that payment, how they decide you don't as a landlord have do anything. You don't have to write a check. Doing it and, you know, major invoice object invoice.
[00:33:50] Yeah. Put that check in the mail. It's all electronic there's records on everything that just one small example of what we do in this integrated. Um, platform [00:34:00] and we provide landlords with unfettered access to insurance mortgage and all the financial services they need all with the data that they have on that platform.
[00:34:09] Eddie: Yeah. It's, it's incredible. Um, I, you know, I owned like every young army officer. I think you buy some property, I guess when you get out. And so you're always dealing with these Atlanta, uh, landlord type issues, but you're not. Necessarily well, equipped to deal with them. Um, Zibo seems kind of like a no brainer from that respect when it comes to like, how do you find, like, get people to know about CBO?
[00:34:30] Like, it seems like everybody who's had nobody really, unless you're, you're a huge company. I would say most people probably don't like being a landlord. Like they do it because it makes some extra income, but it's just such a, it's a hassle, right. Because, you know, you tend to be disorganized with how you deal with these types of things.
[00:34:47] Um, how do you find. It's great to be on the boat. Yeah. It's like
[00:34:52] Chris: a bed, but you'll love it before you buy it and you love it the day you sell it. Um, [00:35:00] no, it's, it's all the maintenance in between that you hate.
[00:35:04] Eddie: How did, how did the young landlords find about how do the landlords that are out there? Maybe they've got somewhere between five and 50 properties.
[00:35:12] It's, it's more headache than they want to deal with, but now they're stuck within there. They're doing it. How do they find it? Out about Zibo. Like how do they understand what the promised land holds?
[00:35:22] Chris: I mean, for listen free. If they're listening to this show, they go to zebo.ceo,
[00:35:27] Eddie: all the, all the army officers out there with, you know, a bunch of properties sitting at Fort hood or Fort brag or whatever it is because everybody knows somebody they're buying property out there.
[00:35:35] So that's right.
[00:35:36] Chris: And, uh, and by the way, it's a smart decision because you know, you always have a. Uh, customer base. But, um, look, I think we rely heavily on a couple things. Number one is, uh, is, is, you know, goes back to my math days. We do digital advertising. Cause it's very math based. We figure out what works to what audience and what channel [00:36:00] and whether or not they convert down funnel sign up, you know, whether or not they collect payments, they buy.
[00:36:05] Insurance or mortgages from us. So it was a very math based analytical process. And, you know, our pride predominant vehicles for advertising are Facebook and Google. We also do direct mail, direct email, and we do a lot of PR so events like this, you know, um, to really try and get the word out that you know, what Zibo is trying to do.
[00:36:30] Provide an independent landlord with the same technology and tools that the, that the institutional investors are using to level that playing field. Because, you know, if you're an independent landlord, you're competing for tenants for financial services, um, for buying a properties with those big guys, and you just don't have the same.
[00:36:55] Tools and resources. And that's what we're trying to do is democratize, [00:37:00] you know, professional software and financial services for that independent landlord. Yeah. Well,
[00:37:05] Eddie: I mean, two people that, um, we should definitely connect you with after the show one, I don't know if you follow the drunk old grad, uh, Instagram meme.
[00:37:13] Would love to connect you into, into those folks. And then also to sit reps to steer codes, which really focuses on that military transition, but they both have well over 25,000 Instagram followers, but we'd love to kind of know, help put the word out about Zibo and those channels as
[00:37:27] Chris: well. That would be great.
[00:37:29] Eddie. I greatly appreciate it. You know, we just celebrated our one-year anniversary this week. August 5th is when we launched our product publicly. And you know, we, the company is two and a half years old. I started at two and a half years ago, but the, the product itself is only a year old. And, you know, we went from, I think last year at this point we had friends and family, we had 30, 40, 50, maybe 50 customers.
[00:37:56] On our platform, you know, we're looking, we're doing [00:38:00] 5,000 monthly active users. Um, we're approaching $70 million of just rent payment processing, uh, as of this month, 70 million annualized. Um, so we're growing in a remarkably rapid pace. You know, both our digital efforts, but also some word of mouth where people are like, oh my goodness, there is an alternative, there is a solution out there.
[00:38:22] If you want to consolidate all your financials in one place.
[00:38:26] Eddie: Yeah. Great. Well, Chris, we might have to talk after this because my day job I'm actually a venture capitalist, so, and we write larger checks. So we would love to, to perhaps some explore some opportunities as well. And we always like money.
[00:38:38] That's great. Um, Know, it's been a crazy year for landlords. Um, it's, you know, some areas have been hit hard, like perhaps the San Francisco bay area, we're actually on a condo and it's been been, you know, difficult, but luckily I have a tenant there. Um, but some areas have been really booming in, you know, How has the last year been [00:39:00] and has the pandemic affected Zibo in any way?
[00:39:03] Chris: You know, people ask me this a lot and I think pandemic has impacted us positively. And the reason for that is, think about the beginning of the pandemic. If you remember back to March and April, Nia, really from March through the early summer of 2020. No one was seeing anything. They were like, you were like ordering groceries from the grocery store and you were spraying them full of like loads of whatever you could spray them with outside your house and then bringing them in.
[00:39:31] Nobody wanted to touch cash. No one wanted to touch checks. No one wanted to go to a bank. Actually, you couldn't go to a bank because banks were closed. So. You know, all of a sudden Zibo comes into that timeframe where people are doing everything digitally, even if you're older and not really that savvy with a mobile phone, like you've got to order groceries and how are you going to do that?
[00:39:54] Everyone was doing everything online. And so all of a sudden landlords that were like, [00:40:00] Hey, look, I'm not, I mean, I'm old school. I'm going to do checks in the mail. They're like, you know, I need a different way to do this. And they became more open to change now. I think Zibo is at the very beginning of a multi-decade transformation to everything electronic for landlords.
[00:40:19] And you know, right now, 80% of all rent for instance, is collected offline it's cash. Check in various other forms of payment, you believe that
[00:40:32] Eddie: I kind of do my tenant. Venmo's me. I don't think know if that's legal or whatever it is, but he Venmo's me. So,
[00:40:38] Chris: yeah. Yeah. And, and that's, that's fine. If, if your tenant were, by the way, Zibo, his payment platform is set up very similar to Venmo.
[00:40:47] And we can do a higher, um, uh, amount, but what's really cool about it is that we have a closed loop. So that tenant has a record of all their rent payments. And the landlord has a record of all their rent [00:41:00] payments. What's on time. What's not on time. And it's a closed system from the standpoint of keeping all your records straight, both from the tenant perspective and the landlord perspective and is just as common.
[00:41:11] Um, so yeah, so I think we're on a long transformation to a completely digital world and it really got accelerated during. The COVID time. So check that from the standpoint of landlords had been a rough period of time and, you know, the public media and the press would like you to believe that all these landlords are rich fat cats, you know, um, that are trying to make the lives of tenants miserable.
[00:41:38] That's not our customers. Our customers are trying to. Yeah, provide housing, affordable housing, quality housing to, to their tenants and, um, and, and create a positive experience for the tenants. So they stay and believe it or not the number one issue. And the reason why we focus on payments is, is cashflow.
[00:41:59] Why? [00:42:00] Because landlords are remarkably challenged to pay bills. And if the timing. Cash in is all from the cash out. Those bills don't stop. So if you don't get paid
[00:42:13] rent
[00:42:13] Chris: and you still have to pay your mortgage and utilities and lawn service and all those other things, and you know, that causes massive strain.
[00:42:23] And so, you know, we've got this moratorium on evictions and the only reason why you have evictions landlords hate it. No, I haven't met a landlord in my life who likes to evict somebody. That's terrible. It's a terrible experience. It makes them feel terrible. It's not when it's a failure and eh, but, but like the only way to get people to pay their rent is to say, look, if you don't pay your rent, you can't stay in that.
[00:42:47] And so it's been a real challenge for many, many landlords. Um, and I'm not under, um, playing the challenge that it has for the tenants the tenants have. Yeah. It's been a really tough time, especially if [00:43:00] you're in a service industry, but, um, for landlords, there's no forgiveness on the loan side. There's no forgiveness on utility side and you know, if you're not getting it.
[00:43:11] Cash in. It's really hard to manage that cash out. So that's one of the things that zebra is also doing is helping landlords manage cashflow because we can see the cash in and the cash out. And so we're giving short term loans through our landlords so that they can actually bridge the cash gap when they need it.
[00:43:27] Eddie: Yeah. I mean, I can tell you firsthand that's that's really, um, that's something that I think about a lot.
[00:43:32] Chris: I never forget when I first started getting into trouble. I came about two months from not from missing my mortgage payment, you know? And, uh, and it was rough because I had a tenant who I had to evict.
[00:43:46] They trashed my house. I had to gut it and redo it. And in the course of doing that, I was, I was just way too levered, which is something that is landlords. You gotta be really careful of today. It's a little more, but at [00:44:00] that time I was. 90%. Um, and yeah, it was, it was tough.
[00:44:05] Eddie: Nice. Yeah. Um, know, in some ways it's, there's probably a lot of gains to be had there too,
[00:44:11] Chris: but, um, a lot of games, I mean, look in the end, it's like, it's like a boat.
[00:44:16] You're excited about it when you. And you're happy to tell when you sell it. Yeah.
[00:44:21] Eddie: Um, Chris, what's the, like, I'm envisioning a future. You, you talked about Uber now. We can all see how Uber has transformed our lives with the transparency of the transaction, the rating of the driver. Um, perhaps the rating of the rider as well.
[00:44:35] Is that the future vision that you think of when you think, you know, 10 years from now, the effect that Zibo has had on the transactions between landlords and tenants? Is that what it looks. Yeah.
[00:44:46] Chris: Well, we aim to do is to make the experience for landlords tenants and the, the contractors of, of property owners, remarkably easy when it comes to financial services.
[00:44:59] [00:45:00] You know, the idea that if you give us access to your data, once over the lifetime of your relationship with Zebo, that you never have to fill out an application. You know, if you have done a credit check as a tenant and we have access to that credit check and you have it in your file and we have all of your rent payment history, why do you ever need to do it again?
[00:45:22] Like you just give access to the new landlord, your payment history, and. The previous, uh, check and you should be good to go, you know, the ability for a tenant to, to build credit while renting their property today, they don't get credit for renting. That's crazy. Um, whereas it's the number one outlay that they have.
[00:45:44] It's 11% of all consumer payments is rent. Um, and so it's just, it's, it's not it's. And so on the consumer side, it's creative. Well, we call a tenant for life or a concern, a renter for life where that renter is, is our customer. And they're [00:46:00] bringing all of the attributes and history and services with them as they go from landlord to landlord.
[00:46:06] And as a landlord is to one-stop shop where you can do everything related to staying organized, you know, maximizing your cash flow. Getting access to credit and all other financial services in an automated platform using machine learning and modern software and technology to help you manage all of that.
[00:46:28] And then for, you know, vendors of landlords, the idea of property managers and, and, and like say a plumber is how can you get paid fast? You know, how can you have a, a really strong. Tight financial relationship with that landlord so that they can put you in touch with a tenant. That's having an issue. You can go do the work and boom, you get paid.
[00:46:51] As soon as that work has done, really enabling fast payments because for most vendors, uh, and you know, con [00:47:00] construction, cleaning, you know, maintenance, you know, their Castro. They need to be paid quickly. And, um, and, and those are the types of things that we're trying to do. And fundamentally, we're trying to completely transform the final angel services experience that, that network of landlord tenant and vendor have with financial services.
[00:47:25] Eddie: That's awesome. Um, so, uh, you know, focusing a little bit more on, on you, Chris, um, you had mentioned hard work is really important and you'd, you'd walked us through all these things that could, you could be kind of attributed to where you've gotten in life. Let's get into our next segment, the SOP or standard operating procedure in this segment, we're going to talk about the personal routines habits and words to live by that have been instrumental to our guests success.
[00:47:50] What are the daily things that you do, whether you know, whatever habits that you do, you know, w w we're trying to do is correlate amongst all these really cool, successful stories. [00:48:00] Like, are there things that I have to do, like drink three glasses of water a day? Like, I don't know whatever it is, but what makes you tick on a daily basis?
[00:48:06] That's really helped out, you know, it's funny.
[00:48:10] Chris: I can tell you all the things I wish I did on a daily basis. I can tell you what,
[00:48:15] Eddie: I've got a lot of
[00:48:15] Chris: those between the SOP and the operationalization of the SOP. So I'll tell you what, um, my SOP or what I, what I do on a daily basis. And, and, and if, if we, if we want, we can talk about what I wish I did on a daily basis, you know, look, I wake up.
[00:48:34] Almost every day, roughly about the same time, regardless of whether or not I'm traveling internationally or at home. And I actually, interestingly enough, I read a fortune magazine article years ago about Hank Paulson, uh, the former CEO of Goldman Sachs and treasury secretary. And his secret was he got up at the same time, regardless of where he was.
[00:48:57] And he worked. [00:49:00] And, and for me, I'm a fairly, you can talk to some of the other people that can attest to this. I'm a fairly intense guy. And so I got to take, I got to take the edge off a little bit every day. So I have to work out every day, like, regardless of whether it's yoga or stretching, Or a run or a mountain bike or whatever it is, but I have to, I have to work out every day.
[00:49:23] So I get up, I'm get my coffee and I head to the gym or a head outside for a workout. And I'm super disciplined around my day. Doesn't start until eight 30. Why? Because I know that by the time I get all that stuff done, get a shower and I get to the office eight 30 is the time that I can make it there and still fill it, fit all that stuff in.
[00:49:45] Um, and then I, you know, what's been awesome about it. About COVID is I haven't traveled as much. So I see my kids every day. And I get to say goodbye to him in the morning and give him a kiss and hug and you know, and I have three daughters and it's just like, it's super important. [00:50:00] Although I will say I have two teenage daughters and sometimes they don't want to see me in the morning.
[00:50:06] Eddie: Yeah. They probably, I have a teenage. Yeah. So, but it's great that you get to spend more time with them considering I imagine you traveled a ton when you were at McKinsey. I know you traveled a lot when you were at HP. Um, and you know, You know, life is you've, you've lived a very busy life. So
[00:50:23] Chris: my wife is hoping that COVID ends so that I could travel again.
[00:50:26] Um, but, but no, I mean, I think for me getting the, the, the anchoring thing in my day is that morning, that morning routine. It centers me and grounds me. And even when I'm working out, I'm thinking about what are the priorities for the day what's most important? What are the ideas and allows me to clear my mind.
[00:50:45] I'm not looking. I mean, the worst thing in the world is like, you've got, I've got two of these and I'm always looking at these and then I've got my computer popping stuff up. Really in the morning, the only thing I have on this phone is my heart rate. And you know [00:51:00] how far I've gone in the pace on that.
[00:51:02] And, and that just totally centers me and grounds me and clears my mind and allows me to focus. And then. After I'm done with that. The first thing I do is eat breakfast, always have breakfast, almost the same thing every day, you know, protein shake and, um, I never miss a meal. That's some, my mother, I mean, never miss a meal.
[00:51:22] I missed a couple of meals at ranger school and I swore I'd never miss a meal again. So I actually am pretty disciplined about the structure of eating as well. And I think that. You know, kind of gets you through the day. And then I, Jim, I'm pretty jam packed from eight 30 in the morning till call at six at night, have dinner, spend time with the family decompress a little bit.
[00:51:45] Typically have a glass of wine. And then I get back on and I do some thinking and email stuff for an hour or two in the evenings. And that's generally the cycle, uh, that, um, that I'm on. And, and, you know, we've got operational [00:52:00] cadences that we put in place to keep us all connected during COVID because we're all kind of spread out.
[00:52:06] Um, but, uh, yeah, that's generally the broad. Thumb from thumbnail sketch. And it's even on the weekends, I'm up almost the same time and, you know, working out or doing something with the family.
[00:52:19] Eddie: Yeah, no, that's, um, it's great to hear. Um, and something I'm sure resonates with a whole bunch of the audience, like, like you're just not as good if you don't get that workout in the morning and, and the mind's not as clear the body doesn't feel quite as good.
[00:52:30] All right. It's time for our final. Giving back. So lastly for the younger veterans listening out there that are, you know, we're really focusing on, uh, the veterans that are really trying to hit it out of the park with their careers, much like, you know, how you did it, what would be the last parting advice that you have for them?
[00:52:47] Um, you know, inspiration, advice, education, whatever it is like if you're 25 to 35 or maybe even 40, but you're really trying to gun it. Like. What does, what does Chris, you have to say to them? I
[00:52:58] Chris: mean, it's interesting. The [00:53:00] whole concept of hitting it out of the park. I never ever felt like I hit it out of the park.
[00:53:03] I just always felt like I was, you know, swinging the bat heart and hoping that it would hit and, you know, bunting and getting on base. And. You know, maybe you steal a base every once in a while or get thrown out and you learn, it's not about hitting it out of the park. That's the thing is it's like, it's just hard work every day.
[00:53:22] And you know, you try and make the right decisions and be open to opportunities and listen, and really have a kind of a, a set of criteria for yourself about. Are opportunities that you'd be excited about. And when those present themselves, then you got to go in with full vigor and, and, and go after it.
[00:53:41] The other thing I would say is just, um, you know, it, you got to take some risk. Like I talked to a lot of people. Uh, over a long period of time, even people I was trying to recruit. And, you know, I really do think, I mean, along my career, there've been people that are far more talented than [00:54:00] me that were my peers, like every step of the way.
[00:54:03] And I honestly think that, you know, other than Locke, one of the things that differentiated kind of where we landed and I've still got 20 years left in my career. So, but. Got a point is, is really, um, is risk-taking, you know, Hey, we want you to move to Switzerland. Okay. Pick me. Hey, we want you to do this.
[00:54:29] Nobody. Like, I mean, I remember, you know, my, one of my big operating roles, you know, really ugly, messy. Situation. And the CEO is saying, Hey, I need somebody to take leadership of this and drive it. Who's going to do it. And everybody's looking around, look around like that, but me I'll do it in like the risk of failure was high.
[00:54:49] But like, if you, if you don't do things because you're afraid to fail, then. You'll never succeed. I mean, sometimes I'll tell you what, starting a company. I mean, I've never [00:55:00] been so exposed to failure on an ongoing basis. Like every three months you like have some event that could essentially blow your whole company up and fail, like, and like, it's just super humbling by the way.
[00:55:17] But you just kind of have to, because everybody's looking at you as a leader, you just kind of have to get up and give people hope and keep going. Um, this a little bit, like, you know, for those of the people that have been to ranger school or anything like ranger school, it's like chasing that burger king, uh, Whopper through the sky.
[00:55:35] Just like if that's the thing that keeps you going at night, you know, you just keep chasing that burger and, uh, or blueberry, pancakes, whatever it may be.
[00:55:46] Eddie: That's awesome advice. Um, oh Chris, um, I think that's all we have time for, although I could probably spend at least a couple hours more just being inspired and, and learning, but, um, we really, really appreciate your time.
[00:55:58] We know it's super valuable and, uh, [00:56:00] thank you for giving back today.
[00:56:02] Chris: No problem, Eddie. And, uh, you know, the only thing I'm struggling with a little bit is being called an old grad.
[00:56:09] Eddie: Technically we're all dreads. I dunno. You're you are. You're the, let me think. You're the second youngest person we've talked to the first one.
[00:56:18] Oh man.
[00:56:18] Chris: I'm feeling, I'm feeling excited now.
[00:56:22] Eddie: 3 0 8 is the very youngest. But, um, but so yeah, there's a lot of great, great people out there with awesome stories. Um, w it's been a real pleasure having you on today. Thank you. Thank you again. Thanks.
[00:56:35] Chris: Eddie's the same has been a pleasure chatting with you.
[00:56:39] Thank you for listening to OnPoint. Please take a moment to rate and review the show. Wherever you're listening. It really helps us out. Also subscribe to our newsletter@oldgradclub.com and follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn at old grad club. We'll see you in the next episode.[00:57:00]