This episode features an interview with Mike Erwin, Founder & Executive Director of Team Red, White, & Blue — a non-profit organization that delivers local opportunities for veterans and the community to connect through physical and social activities. On this episode, Mike shares the different missions that overlap across his personal and professional life, how a key mentor helped pave the way for his successes, and why he believes rowing with chaos is better than fighting against it.
“My chairman of the board for team RWB, First Captain in West Point class of 1991, Doug McCormick says that bias for action is very important because you're going to learn a lot just by rolling up your sleeves and doing. And so even if you start something and it only lasts for two years or three years, or it doesn't succeed — it might very well be setting you up for success in some arena or some way that you didn't expect.” — Mike Erwin
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Episode Timestamps:
*(2:05) - Pitching at West Point and Mike’s overall experience
*(4:25) - Balancing Team Red, White & Blue and the military
*(6:40) - When an idea becomes a living-breathing entity
*(8:05) - Scaling a non-profit organization
*(12:30) - The guiding mentors that helped Mike along the way
*(15:40) - Mike publishes his first book: Lead Yourself First: Inspiring Leadership Through Solitude
*(19:10) - Mike’s new book is coming out soon: Leadership is a Relationship: How to Put People First in the Digital World
*(25:00) - The next phase of leadership, psychology, and humanity
*(29:40) - How Mike balances everything he has going on
*(32:00) - The Sitrep
*(36:50) - What stresses Mike out and how he reframes his thinking
*(39:40) - Giving Back
Links
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[00:01:46] I'm Eddie Kang, founder of the old grad club and your host for today. And I'm joined by a very special guest. Mike Irwin. Mike, how are you doing today? Doing great.
[00:01:50] Mike: Great to be here. Ready and looking forward to the conversation
[00:01:53] Eddie: and we'll awesome. Well, I'm sure a lot of our listeners and myself included had attended red team red, white, and blue, uh, RWB [00:02:00] events in the past. And, uh, Going to be really exciting to dig into kind of how it all started, but maybe we take it back to west point.
[00:02:07] You play baseball graduate in oh two. Is that right?
[00:02:10] Mike: That's right. Yes. I started 1998 and graduated in oh two, which means that September 11th took place at the start of my senior year. I was the left-handed. So actually yearling year, we ended up making it to the NCA tournament, first army baseball team in history to do that.
[00:02:25] So that was pretty awesome. But yeah, everything changed pretty drastically, obviously on September 11th and 12th of 2001, you know, we thought maybe the most challenging deployment we would see in our tenure on active duty might be South Korea or Bosnia Kosovo. And of course that just changed very drastically.
[00:02:45] So, uh, yeah, but it was, you know, my time at west point was. Yeah, I was an econ major. I'll hold those cadets after that first place three or four months, like when life was just so hard, you know, lack of sleep and all that. I I'm one of the people who I kind of who thrived on the structure and [00:03:00] the constant pressure.
[00:03:01] And I think I still live my life to this day. Like kind of thriving on, you know, having my back against the wall and having a lot that I got to get done on every single day. I mean, as you remember, If you're not moving, you know, with a, with a sense of purpose throughout the giving day, you are not going to get things done.
[00:03:17] And I look back very fondly on my cadet days, maybe more finally than when I was living through the. That's been a big part of why I love west point so much.
[00:03:27] Eddie: That's awesome. And so you branched M I and served, I believe 17 years, is that
[00:03:32] Mike: correct? So graduated 13 years active duty and I did 13 years, and then I transitioned to the army reserves.
[00:03:41] So a bit of a unique decision. Most. Probably were kind of shaking their head, like wonder what I was thinking, but yeah, I left active duty at 13 plus years, but I still continue to be able to serve first at the Pentagon. And then back at west point as a teacher. And that's been incredible in a way to continue serving, but just [00:04:00] not obviously on the day to day basis and a big part of that was what I learned about myself in my ability to serve and to impact.
[00:04:08] Uh, as I was learning through team red, white, and blue, because I started team red, white, and blue in grad school in 2010 as a 30 year old captain. And I realized that, you know, I can still have a big impact in sir. Not being in the military every single
[00:04:23] day.
[00:04:23] Eddie: Gotcha. And so you started team red, white and blue.
[00:04:26] It sounds like while you were still in the military. Yes. And was that, how hard was it to balance, you know, all the things that you might have been doing? I don't know if you were, were you a major
[00:04:35] Mike: at that time or so I started when I was in grad school. So the good news is in grad school. I had very few military requirements and I had a lot of bandwidth.
[00:04:44] And so I put it in all my work into grad school, my reading, my writing, all the, all the research. And then I still had a desire to make a difference. And I had the time and the energy and the bandwidth. And so I probably was pouring about 30, 35 hours a week into it [00:05:00] in grad school for 16 months. The interesting thing is.
[00:05:04] Yeah, absolutely. But the interesting thing about the Eddie is that it actually made me a better grad student because I was taking the research in positive psychology that I was reading about and researching, and I was able to actually deploy it into real life and then learn more about it in the process.
[00:05:20] And so that was really cool. Is that it, it's this idea of, you know, kind of rising tides lift all boats. Like I became a better student, a better writer. And also a better leader by devoting 35 additional hours per week. Uh, you know, to team red, white, and blue, you know, to being a social entrepreneur. And so, you know, that is when I started it.
[00:05:41] And then I went back to west point as a teacher and I was a major by that point, uh, and the cadence and the pace of life was a lot faster than, than it was in grad school. And so that's where, you know, I had to really piece the hours together early in the morning. Late at night on the [00:06:00] weekends. And that's also when I was back at west point for less than a year, when we realized we need to hire someone full-time to run this mission, because I could not be the executive director for much longer because the organization had so much more potential.
[00:06:15] And, uh, that led us to make that first decision to hire a 2001 graduate named Blaine Smith, who quickly then brought on another oh one grad named JJ fencer. Uh, RDV is off to the races. And that was again, 2012, 2003.
[00:06:29] Eddie: Gotcha. That's uh, it's fascinating. Cause you, while you were in the military, you know, balancing all these different things, probably learning how to get a nonprofit started.
[00:06:38] I, is that, how was that a thing or like, did you ever establish it? Um, w how long did it go as probably like a side product of years before you were like, oh, this is a real organization that we need to get, uh, you know, we need a bank account and all these kinds of things.
[00:06:53] Mike: So the good news on that is that I had some mentors who provided some advice that, Hey, like you either got to go in [00:07:00] or not.
[00:07:01] Uh, and so it wasn't really a side project. We actually on March 23rd, 2010, codified it formed it as it is in, in Inc in the state of Michigan and then applied for IRS tax exempt status, IRS form 10 23 for that 5 0 1 C3 status. And so we, we did that right off the bat and that really. Actually it kind of compelled massive action because one of the things is if you make it a side project for too long, it can get comfortable being like, Hey, well I don't need this.
[00:07:29] This is just, you know, something I do for fun or on the side. And by creating an organization with a board of directors, with the mission statement and a website and social media handles all those things that we did in 2002. It said there's no turning back, you know, burn the boats like this is it. We are, we are moving forward.
[00:07:48] And that brought, I think, a different sense of intensity and energy into team red, white, and blue. Then if it had just been this thing on the side for two or three,
[00:07:57] Eddie: Yeah, there's a little bit of, [00:08:00] um, parallels between that and what we do at the old grad club. When we, when you think about those first hires that you made, how did you think about who you wanted to bring on board?
[00:08:10] You know, what was going through your mind on, you know, the trajectory of the organization and the scale of the business, not business, but nonprofit that you
[00:08:18] Mike: wanted to build here. This goes back to your first question about. Uh, you know, Hey, it was some sort of class or like, you know, something that you, you w where did you learn this idea of starting a nonprofit?
[00:08:29] The reality is I, I didn't, I think like a lot of people, I just started taking action. Uh, but I did have a couple of mentors who kind of said, this is what you needed to do from like the legal side and the financial side and things like that. But, um, I. Totally OJT, you know, on the job training. Um, we didn't have the money to hire a, anyone to work on the staff for the first couple of years.
[00:08:52] So it was all volunteers. Those volunteers were the board members. Um, majority of them were west point graduates. [00:09:00] People that I knew personally, that. Called up and said, Hey, we'll Reynolds, Jenny McBride, Mikey altar, John gore, my brother mark. I mean, I think six or seven of our founding 10 board members were west point grads.
[00:09:12] And so, you know, that was, that was a, definitely a, uh, a big thing for us is that, you know, we wanted, you know, right off the bat to make a difference. And, but that didn't mean that we had everything figured out in terms of, Hey, how are we going to do this? How are we going to run programs? How are we going to do.
[00:09:31] How are we going to do that? You know, we did have a guy on our board who was the COO for Wiley and sons publishing guy named Larry Olson. So he really helped them the brand front and the marketing front. But beyond that, our finance guy, Jimmy McBride, we still joke to this day about it. My class. I selected him because I knew he had like three rental properties and he did, and he did a good job managing the books.
[00:09:54] That was my rationale for asking him to be the, uh, the, the treasurer on the board of directors. And, and of [00:10:00] course he's like, yeah, sure. I'm in, you know, so like, it's just funny when you look back at it, but you don't know, you don't know any better sometimes. And naivete is bliss. Yeah.
[00:10:10] Eddie: And it's, I think if you think about all the different things that you had to get done to bring RWB to where it is right now, you probably, it would have been a lot to take in and maybe intimidating.
[00:10:22] But I think if you just go in yeah. And so question randomly, but. You think you're more fit or less fit? Like how, how would you, how do you track your fitness? Like basically as an army baseball player today, did it get better? Did it get worse? Like where there are peaks and valleys, like physically? Cause I mean, you must, you must think about it a lot, given your organization's kind of, you know, centered around the idea of activity.
[00:10:46] Mike: Absolutely. When I was a pitcher at west point and when I was, you know, a cadet, you know, a lot of what I did send around, right. You know, running and then, you know, we did lifting for leg strength and things like that. [00:11:00] And then as they got out into the army, a lot of what we focused on was. Rucking, you know, and then getting stronger, especially on deployments.
[00:11:09] Um, and then I saw what a majority of veterans go through, like when you leave active duty and you no longer have the requirement of two PT tests per year, and it's not a part of essentially how people view you, uh, in terms of, are you a good officer or not? You don't have the positive social pressure, all those kinds of things.
[00:11:28] It's very difficult to still bring. That level of focus, energy and commitment to physical training on a daily basis. And when we saw it at team red, white, and blue was like, this was, this is the huge need that veterans needed. My, again, what I call positive peer pressure to stay physically active. So today it's interesting.
[00:11:48] Cause I'm 41 years old. Now I'm a big Jacob's ladder fan and a big concept to. So I do a lot of rowing and a lot of Jacob's ladder and I still do some running and, you know, burpees and [00:12:00] box jumper bees and things like that. But, you know, I probably have a higher variance in my physical training today than ever, but I definitely.
[00:12:09] Know, and not as like beast mode fit today, as I was, you know, when I was in third special forces group and, you know, running ultra marathons when team Rebecca Lou started in 2010 through two, uh, through
[00:12:22] Eddie: 2014. Gotcha. That makes all sense. So taking a step back for a bit, you start this organization, you're starting to scale it.
[00:12:32] Um, who are the people within your network that you really kind of leaned on for both mentorship guidance direction, and how did that come into play as you expanded the vision perhaps of team RWB and also, um, just wanting to build something that would be enduring?
[00:12:48] Mike: Absolutely. So for me, My greatest mentor was w well, when I, when I got back to west point as a teacher in 2011 in large part, because of what I was doing with team red, white, and blue, [00:13:00] the department head at the time, Colonel Tom Kolditz selected me to be.
[00:13:05] What's this called the General's aid for Jim Collins, the author of good to great and built to last and why the mighty fall, I mean, you know, sold public, I think 15 or 16 million copies of his books. And, and he was the 1951 chair for the study of leadership. Uh, and I was basically his planner and help to coordinate all the, you know, the events and he was going to do.
[00:13:27] And I got to watch him lead seven leadership development seminars over a two year. And I share that just because, wow. I mean, he became not just a, a great mentor, but a great teacher, you know, for me. And, you know, that was a really, really big deal for team red, white, and blue, because as I was leading the organization at the time I had the advice and the mentorship of literally one of the world's best.
[00:13:58] Um, leadership and [00:14:00] organization building, who was like my personal coach and that's made a huge difference for T-Mobile.
[00:14:07] Eddie: Yeah, that's massive. I, I didn't know that prior to this interview, that's a really kind of, uh, an influential figure within society. Do you think that you would have done team red, white, and blue?
[00:14:17] Had you not gone through that experience
[00:14:21] Mike: team? Red, white and blue definitely would not have been, you know, uh, been where it's at today without that, without his mentorship. And without that guidance that he provided, not only did he provide that for me individually, but then he did some work for our staff and for our organization.
[00:14:36] Yeah, a lot of what Jim does centers that, how do you build a great organization, a great company, a great nonprofit, a great school. It doesn't matter whatever the organization is, how do you make it? Great. And you know, his biggest thing is there's no silver bullet. There's no magic breakthrough. And he calls it the 20 mile March.
[00:14:56] It's the consistency of putting in the 20 mile March, you know, [00:15:00] and that is all very, very. Tough to hear when you're building an organization that it's going to take 15 years before you even enter the conversation of, are you a great organization or not? You know, and that is, yeah, that's just something you gotta be ready for.
[00:15:16] If you're building an organization, like, are you willing to put in that work for a long period of time to build something great. And what he points out all the time is that most people aren't. Yeah, they want to build a company or build something in and flip it or sell it, or they want to do something for three years, then move on.
[00:15:32] But the idea of building something in during and great, um, while hard that's like where there's just so much joy
[00:15:40] Eddie: makes a lot of sense. Um, and so eventually to 2017 rolls around you publish your first book, lead yourself first inspiring leadership through solitude. Uh, can you take us through. You know, so at that point you've already found it team red, white, and blue.
[00:15:55] Obviously there's a huge focus on fitness, uh, activity within the [00:16:00] organization and then also your life. And you tie that into character and leadership. There's a lot of themes going on, but how did you, how did you bring those all together, uh, into both your life and then the first kind of book that you wanted to publish
[00:16:12] Mike: out there?
[00:16:12] Yeah. So the first book I started writing it in 2000 and. Really, I should say more accurately started researching it and then writing it in 2010 while I was at grad school, actually about a month after I launched team red, white and blue is when I linked up with a federal judge re. And we committed to working on this book together.
[00:16:32] Uh, we did not know that it would be a seven year journey. I don't know if we would have undertaken it. If we knew that it was going to be a seven year journey, you know, it, it was, uh, a true test of perseverance. And how much did we believe in the thesis? But the thesis is. Is that in the fast moving noisy busy world that this is today in the information age that slowing down going smooth, right?
[00:16:59] We've heard in the military [00:17:00] phrase, right? Smooth as fast, you know, that slow is smooth into this fast. I mean, like it's very much, you know, a big part of the book's message is that sometimes you gotta slow down. You gotta make sure you think for yourself, Leaders have a obligation to, to analyze and to reflect into focus, especially on things that guide their decision-making, especially when those decisions are going to have a big impact on other people's lives, the people that you lead.
[00:17:27] So that really was in many ways like the, the Genesis of the book was that when I, uh, there was actually a talk given at west point in 2009 to the plead class, by a guy named bill. He talked a lot about the role of solitude and leadership turned into an article that I read. I reached out to him and told him that this is an amazing talk you gave.
[00:17:49] And I really think you should explore writing an entire book on it. And to which he replied that he was already working on another book and that he was not a leadership expert. [00:18:00] And so if I wanted to read that book, that I should write that book. And so that's really where, uh, you know, the idea began, but I thought a lot about my time in the military and especially on deployments, when I would go from, as an intelligence officer, I would spend a lot of my time, like just thinking.
[00:18:18] And I would walk from my work, the talk, the tax law, et cetera, to the defect. Right. And I'd spend sometimes 30 minutes of my day just walking in silence. And I'm like, I would, um, also go for runs, you know, in, when my shift was over. And so I would find these moments of solitude in, especially my deployments.
[00:18:41] And I found a ton of value in them and gained a lot of my clarity of thinking in those moments. And, uh, Ray did the same thing as he thought about going up north to his cabin where he doesn't even have internet. Uh, in getting away from the noise of the world and how much more clearly he thought and communicated.
[00:18:59] So, [00:19:00] yeah, it's a long winded way of saying like the book sort of started there and then continued to grow as we talked to more and more people and then interviewed them in profile.
[00:19:10] Eddie: And so now you're on to essentially you publishing your second book, right? It's coming out in November. Is that right?
[00:19:16] Mike: It is.
[00:19:16] Yeah. Yep. So, uh, leadership has a relationship how to put people first in the digital world. Uh, that's the name of the next book? Well, in, in one hand, it might seem very different. Wait a minute, first book was about solitude and now it's about relationships. The point of both books, they kind of fit under the umbrella that the world and how people live in the world in the information age has changed pretty drastically.
[00:19:45] And, and therefore how we lead people. Has also fundamentally in theory changed. And when you think about how people shop, how they communicate, how they make decisions, how they consume information, how they do so many different [00:20:00] things. And so the book is really is an exploration about essentially what is the business case?
[00:20:05] The value proposition of being a leader who prioritizes people and prioritizes relationships with people. And we look at all the various, Hey, resilience, loyalty, stability, accountability, trust. All of these things grow when a leader is people focused, um, and very often the results take care of themselves.
[00:20:29] Um, and that's a very different mindset than some leaders have, which is very much. How am I going to squeeze every ounce of productivity out of people? And, uh, well, yes, like sometimes, like we need people to be super productive and we need to be able to really maximize the impact that they have.
[00:20:48] Sometimes the answer is slowing down. Sometimes the answer is like saying, all right, well, what do we need to do differently here? Um, and ensure that we're not burning our people. [00:21:00] Right. And so there's always going to be that tension there because any leader who's pushing hard and chomping at the bit to push the pace, uh, like that's, that's like a Gemini, a hallmark of, of good leaders, but there's that fundamental question?
[00:21:13] Well, how is how's that different and how do you need to perhaps be different when you need to slow down? And are you in tune with yourself to be able to slow down enough in the prioritize, the relationship you have with the people you lead. So really excited about it, very, very timely, and, uh, and think it's going to have a real big impact on the leadership.
[00:21:34] Eddie: My girlfriend's a leadership coach. So in given my background in the military and hers doing leadership consulting for really large organizations, it's a, there's a lot of energy and momentum across different channels. There's a lot that's happening within the world. That's dynamic when it comes to like remote work hybrid work, all these different themes that are changing, both how organizations exist within different industries.[00:22:00]
[00:22:00] Curious when you think about a digital. World and relationships. How does that change to you? Um, given that a lot of times organizations aren't working together these days, um, in the same location,
[00:22:12] Mike: Yeah, that's a great, great question. And I'm actually working on an article for Harvard business review right now on this very topic.
[00:22:19] Um, that is the number one question that comes up when people sort of check in with me or ask team or light blue has been distributed and remote since its very beginning in 2012 and 13, when we started hiring staff. So, you know, we've got a lot of experience in reps with having a distributed. Doesn't mean that it's easy, right?
[00:22:40] It doesn't mean that just because you have a lot of reps in doing it, or a lot of experience that, that it gets easier with time. I think it becomes the norm. And so for us, it's become the norm and therefore it's not that people don't know any different, but that's primarily what they know, but that is the number.
[00:22:54] One question that I get from people is like, Matt, how do I lead in this distributed environment? [00:23:00] Um, it's a lot easier to kick a debate or discussion or disagree. Down the road in remote environment. It's harder to catch the people as effectively when you're not in the same room. Even if you're on video chat, it's just, it's just not the same.
[00:23:15] That's a two dimensional space. Three-dimensional space is being in the same room, the same geographical spaces. People be able to give a high five or a hug and see them. Uh, so yeah, I think that this is the question right now that a majority of people are asking them. As companies like PWC and Facebook and Walmart, uh, technology likes the emphasis.
[00:23:38] Some of the organizations I know that are, have kind of offered up permanent virtual work. How do you make that work? I think that's a big question. And I think there's a lot of people that are betting on that is the right answer. I think the answer is a hybrid. You know, is my view on it. Like, so if you're going to have permanent remote or [00:24:00] permanent distributed workforce, I think you have, the pressure is on to be especially vigilant about how you spend your time together and how you bring people together.
[00:24:10] And then how you onboard new hires. Um, how do you weave them into the culture? How do you have difficult conversations? All these things are a lot harder objectively in a remote work environment for a majority of. So that's where I think the big question, you know, the questions reside is, is how do you do this?
[00:24:29] And, and the argument in the book is essentially that prioritizing relationships with people, getting to know them beyond their job title, beyond the work that they do is essential for people to feel like they actually belong. And my leader cares about me as a human being, not just a sales rep or a marketer or an operations.
[00:24:52] Right. And I think that's, to me is where the crux of all this comes through.
[00:24:57] Eddie: All right. So leadership, psychology, all [00:25:00] of that jazz is a huge portion of your career of your life. What you think about what excites you the most about that going into the next phase of, you know, humanity. Oh, geez. Where, where are you really interested in?
[00:25:12] Mike: Yeah, so, I mean, I, I wear a lot of different hats and. Yeah, it keeps me energized. You know, my number one role is leading team red, white, and blue. And I'm very excited about the work that we're doing for the veteran community. You know, our vision at team of light blue really is to forge the leading health and wellness community for veterans.
[00:25:31] Um, and so, you know, like when I look at the mental, physical, and emotional health of the veteran community in America, um, I don't think it's that strong. I think we've got a lot of room to grow and improve. I know that a lot of service members, when they leave the military, they say, oh, I'm beat up. I can't, you know, I can't run anymore.
[00:25:51] I can't work out anymore. I can't exercise. I mean, And I know that's the case for some people, but I think a lot of people, you know, kind of tell them selves [00:26:00] that that's, you know, and believe that when ultimately staying physically active is arguably one of the most important things you can do, not just obviously for your physical health, but for blood pressure and your heart.
[00:26:12] And, but also for your mental and your emotional health to working through sadness or frustration or. Um, making sense of the chaos and the uncertainty on the road ahead. RDB, I'm extremely excited about our mission and our relevancy moving forward to really try to bring as many veterans as possible back to that state, where they were committed to consistent physical activity in their life, because a lot of veterans have, you know, have kind of lost that.
[00:26:41] You know, I found a co-founder with a 2004 grad, Jeff, Brian, uh, something called the positivity project. Very passionate about that work that we do around social, emotional learning and character development in kids, through their schools. How do we help to build, uh, students that are more, [00:27:00] more meaningfully connected in the future?
[00:27:02] Right. There's a lot of challenges that we're all connected on. Social media and LinkedIn and Ababa. But I'm talking like meaningful connection with people in the world. And so a lot of that stems from do you have authentic self-confidence or not? And so the positivity product is working very hard with nearly 700 in 15 schools right now, across the country in less than five years.
[00:27:24] And that has been awesome to see the impact that the positivity product is having, you know, and then my most recent work on I've, uh, started something called the resilient culture initiative. The RC. And essentially it's a lot of content from my two books, lead yourself. First leadership is a relationship and then it weaves in some topics around mental health, like anger, grief, you know, understanding, you know, how to, self-talk, how to manage yourself, talking anxiety, those kinds of things that a lot of people are struggling with, uh, today.
[00:27:57] And so, uh, I'm working on that. And so it's [00:28:00] essentially, it's a 42 week strategy. With a weekly theme. And so each, each week, uh, I'm empowering leaders from different businesses and government agencies to have these conversations with people that they lead, but how to listen better about how to ask better questions.
[00:28:15] About how to accelerate the speed at which you build trust, how to build and foster a resilient teams. You know, cause I think right now what happens is a lot of people do is they listen to pop, you know, they'll listen to a podcast on someone who is a resilience expert or a parenting expert or whatever, or they'll read a book on it.
[00:28:34] But ultimately it's about capacity building. How do we equip leaders with the knowledge and the confidence to be able to sit there and turn around and talk to. Uh, and develop and mentor the people that they lead to do all these things, to have difficult conversations, to hold people accountable, to develop a growth mindset.
[00:28:56] Right? So all of these are different themes within the resilient culture initiative. And again, this [00:29:00] is like when the latest things that I'm working on that I'm very, very passionate about because it started with coming out of COVID and a lot of different companies reached out to me and they wanted me to give talks and giving a talk for 45 minutes by zoom is.
[00:29:14] But ultimately it doesn't, it doesn't last, the impact doesn't last. And so by building capacity within leaders and giving them a strategy to be able to develop their people, that impact can be a ripple effect that that can really change people's
[00:29:28] Eddie: lives. So how much time do you spend with the resilient leader?
[00:29:35] Art is it RCI,
[00:29:36] Mike: RCI, resilient culture initiative. Yeah.
[00:29:39] Eddie: You have so many things going on. How do you balance this and, you know, maintain resilience.
[00:29:44] Mike: Yeah. So I'm a big believer in the power of relationship. That's obviously the title of my next book. And it's also the mission statement of the positivity project.
[00:29:54] The reason I think relationships are so important is that the world is very rarely siloed today. [00:30:00] It's like one, my point is that a relationship in one area might be someone that can open the door for you somewhere else or help out. So the number of people who I've for the past five years before I returned to the executive director role at team red, white, and blue, where I was doing leadership development, you know, with their company or doing.
[00:30:17] They have now come on to support team red, white, and blue, and people who I've learned through team red, white, and blue. Who've asked me to go be a keynote speaker, for example, gangling, uh, most recently. So my point is like, there's a lot of overlap in these different aspects of my life, but what I like about it beyond the fact that it keeps, keeps me moving and I like focusing on different, you know, different things throughout the given week.
[00:30:40] I really liked the fact that there's a lot of overlap in the different. And so just looking at team red, white, and blue, it's really about how do we help veterans be more resilient. So the work that I do for about 10 hours a week on the resilient culture initiative, not only is it influencing how I lead in team red, white, and blue, but it's also influencing [00:31:00] how we build the organization that helps veterans to be more resilient.
[00:31:04] And so I think it gets back to the idea of abundance mindset. Yeah. You know, very often people think that, Hey, you need to be like really focused on just this and only this and that is true. For some people, organizations do need some people who are only focused on that, but you also need organizations.
[00:31:23] Also need people who are up and out, right. And who are thinking vision and strategy and things. You know, 5, 7, 10 years down the road. Right. And that's the role that I play for a lot of different organizations and it really suits my personality well, and it's something that the military trained me on. I was an Intel officer.
[00:31:41] I was trained in predictive analysis. You know, don't tell me about what's happened. Don't tell me about what's happening right now. Tell me with the best accuracy possible. What's going to happen in the future, you know, and, uh, that's been a big part of my success as a, is. Yeah, it's uh,
[00:31:57] Eddie: I was, I was an Intel officer too, and I, I do draw [00:32:00] parallels sometimes between the, the military service and that world and what we do today onto the next segment, the sit rep or the situation report in this segment, we'll dive into what our guest is focused on today and how their vision is transforming the future of industry in society.
[00:32:15] You're an entrepreneur at heart. It seems. It, you know, it's different, whether it's a book or whether it's building team red, white, and blue or, or different initiatives or projects, it seems like there's nothing to kind of keep you down. Like you're always going to be working on something. What are the personal habits that you have on a daily basis?
[00:32:34] And I imagine some of them revolve around fitness, but if there's anything else as well, what allows you to keep going? Um, cause it takes a lot of energy and it also, I'm sure, you know, ways down on YouTube. The, the constant need to consistently perform. Cause it sounds like you throw the ball in front of you and you have to kind of catch up to it.
[00:32:53] But like at some point, like you get, you just keep doing that forever and it's gonna, you know, it's, it takes its toll,
[00:32:59] Mike: right? [00:33:00] It's, it's very, uh, very insightful, you know, sort of, you know, analysis. So a couple of things, I'd say number one, we're all born, you know, we all have different genetic. You know, from how tall we are to the color of our skin, to how strong we are or how strong we can become.
[00:33:16] Right. We're also born in many cases, you know, things like introversion and extroversion and energy. You know, and so for me, I'm a 99 out of a hundred on the extrovert introvert charts. So I, I derive energy from being around people. Um, which means that the solitude thing is something I have to work really hard at.
[00:33:34] Cause it doesn't come naturally to me. But beyond that is, I'm also just born with a very high energy level, you know? Uh, and I've kind of been that way my whole life. So some people just have more energy in a given day than other. You know, that's one thing. So beyond that, but you're exactly right. Like, you start to me again much, like going back to west point, the S the sun never really kind of sets, right.
[00:33:57] Like it does, but there's [00:34:00] always stuff to do. There's always inadequacies, you know, that you're like, I'm not whether it's in your PE boxing class or your PE taking your PT test or swimming, or, you know, plea, musical plead drowning. I think it's now like a yearly or a sophomore or junior year. But like, yeah, there was always something that you, you could be working on, you know?
[00:34:19] And, and that is absolutely the case when you are leading organizations and building and crafting, whether it be a book or whether it be like you said, building a school or a nonprofit or a business or whatever. So I think that, like for me part is the genetic piece, but then a part of it is. That knowing how to say yes, physically active, right?
[00:34:38] Like that gives you energy. That puts you in a better mood that helps you think better. So that's a big part of it. And for me, it's really like the intersection of all these things and learning how to make peace with the case. Right. So I've got five kids. We homeschool, I live on a 32 acre farm. I work from home.
[00:34:57] Whoa. Right? Like, so [00:35:00] she, yeah. So I worked from home, live on 32 acres, five kids, and we homeschool them. Right. So like, it is just pure chaos, right around these 32 acres, just outside Fort Bragg, um, on a daily basis. And if you fight against the chaos, that will take a lot of energy. Right. If you row with. And, you know, you, you can use that to your advantage.
[00:35:22] Right. Um, so for me, a lot of it has really been trying to find things that I think of like dumb and dumber, you know, like, uh, like pick them up, you know, like I say yes to a lot of things. And I say no to a lot of things, right. If I say yes to a fair amount of things, because when I put them on my plate, like it forces me to be better and to be better with my time.
[00:35:44] So going back to your question about. No, don't really watch TV. Don't really watch movies, you know? Uh, I don't get tons of sleep, but I monitor it aggressively with my aura ring aura. Yeah, there we go. You know, and so I keep an eye that, Hey, I know I need like 5 45 to [00:36:00] six 15. Right. And as long as I'm there, I'm good.
[00:36:03] Right. So it's trying to be really in tune with all these things to take care of yourself, you know, leading yourself first, if you will. Um, but then it's also just kind of riding this stuff. You know, and when you ride the storm, the wind is the blow. It blows harder. Right. And for me, that's been something that I I've been able to do.
[00:36:22] And I know lots of other people who do that same thing, but I also know lots of people who get very uneasy with the storm and say, you know what? I do not want that. And I totally respect that. Like, everyone is different, has a different personality, but for me, that's been a large part of my ability to balance all these different initiatives and still maintain the energy level, but also happy.
[00:36:44] It'd be hard pressed to find a happier dude than me, you know? Um, so
[00:36:48] Eddie: yeah. Do you stress over. When you were building this organization, you got, you have a lot of great sponsors. You have great buy-in from really influential people. Obviously there's, you [00:37:00] know, team, you know, team red, white, and blue events everywhere.
[00:37:02] So you, you have, I think you call them like captains or chapters chapters in every, uh, in, uh, in a lot of cities across the country, probably outside the country to do all of these things were initiatives that, that either you or somebody on your team set. Um, and required you something good to happen.
[00:37:21] Does any of that stress you out on LinkedIn or do you just kind of, you know, just keep firing and see when
[00:37:27] Mike: like, yeah. So I would say in general, you know, my, my mantra is, you know, is anybody shooting at you? Right? Like, so as long as the answer is no, you know, I, I, I think sometimes we can make. Small problems, big ones or big problems, huge ones by overreacting or by getting too worked up and stressed out.
[00:37:49] I also recognize that it is challenging and difficult for some people, especially to manage their stress. Again, we just have different personality levels. So this would be the, the [00:38:00] personality trait of neuroticism. I'm pretty low on neuroticism, but I think that the perspective of having been deployed and all that, and like literally knowing like, Hey, do I need to be worried if someone shooting.
[00:38:10] Right. And, and knowing that the answer is no it's, I think very often when people look to look to their leaders for in stressful times and moments is called, you know, it's like, okay, Hey guys, Hey, everyone take a deep breath. It's gonna be all right. Right. Like Lilly take a deep breath, you know? And, and I think that very often people look to their leaders for that calm in the chaos.
[00:38:32] And I try to do that to the very best of my ability once in a while, I'll get spun up, you know, uh, or something, but. Pretty rarely, because again, it also takes time and energy when you get spun up, right? When you get, when you allow stress to, instead of logging it to roll off your back, you allow it to like get internalized and work your way into your, into your guts.
[00:38:52] You know? Um, it has an effect on a lot of things. And so I try really hard to not allow it to, you know, to bog [00:39:00] me down too much and to ruminate on it, et cetera. That is it. And that's a lose, lose, lose, right? Like if that'll you consuming your time and your energy in the moment, but it's also making you less effective, like in all aspects of your life.
[00:39:15] Because if you don't just stress out here, it affects your relationship with your, my wife or my kids or my friends and my family. Right. So really trying to view stress for what it is, um, you know, has been, I think, a really important thing that I've learned over the.
[00:39:33] Eddie: Yeah, I think that's a lesson we can all learn and it would benefit all of our lives.
[00:39:38] All right. It's time for our final segment giving back. And you sort of fell into entrepreneurship a little bit on accident. Is that, is that correct? So what advice do you have for someone looking to start a nonprofit teen team, red, white, and blue, or in other ventures you've currently worked. Then, you know, they've done really well.
[00:39:56] Um, if there some keys to success or something along those [00:40:00] lines for somebody who's starting something. And frankly, you know, after running old, Greg called for a little while, a lot of people. It will reach out, like I have this idea to do this or that, and it doesn't maybe center around fitness or activity, but they've got, there's all a whole bunch of people with energy and passion.
[00:40:15] What would your advice be?
[00:40:17] Mike: First of all, one of them is when you've got clarity on like something that you want to do. Yeah. I think that it's important to find a way to roll up your sleeves and do it. That doesn't mean that you need to go create your own, your own organization, your own initiative.
[00:40:29] Although I do think there is a lot of power in that. It tends to compel massive action. Um, but you know, I'm reading a great book right now called the range by David Epstein. And he talks a lot about how important it is, you know, sit there and be like, you're most likely not gonna be doing something five or 10 years from now that you think you are, you know, like, did I, you know, did you X number of years ago, let's say a decade ago, think you'd be, you know, leading the all Gregg public.
[00:40:54] Like, did you think that you'd be, you know, living where you're at? Did you, you know, it's just life. [00:41:00] And I think that sometimes if we wait around for the perfect moment or the perfect idea, you know, then you might be waiting around for a long time, right. And you, and to bias for action as a, my chairman of the board for team RDV first captain in west Flint class in 1991, Doug McCormick talks about, you know, bias for action is very important because you're going to learn a lot just by rolling up your sleeves and.
[00:41:25] And, um, and so even if you start something and Hey, it only lasts for two years or three years, or it doesn't succeed. It might very well be setting you up for success in some arena or some way that you didn't expect. And, and, and, and again, I think that, um, you have to put enough clarity. You can't just be like, oh, on a whim.
[00:41:43] I think this is a good idea. You know, like you have to do a little bit of analysis, but you don't need to be a consultant and analyze the markets, you know, in the competitive landscape. Yeah, build a business plan before deciding whether it's a launch something or not, you know, like I think this rolling your sleeves up in Kenya, getting into the fight [00:42:00] sometimes is the best thing that you can do.
[00:42:02] And, you know, I think sometimes people need permission. They need to hear that, you know, they really
[00:42:07] Eddie: do. And that's, that's partly, um, really why we started this, you know, both as podcasts and all our different content is that people, I think if they're inspired, they hear the message and they, they realize that.
[00:42:19] Not insurmountable to do a lot of amazing things in your post-military career, whether that's start team red, white, and blue, or, or, you know, a lot of great leaders that we've had in the private sector come on as well. Your leadership research has probably led you and team red, white, and blue to meet a lot of these leaders.
[00:42:37] Uh, you know, our, our final question really has to do with something that's core to this podcast, which is advice for the younger grads, as they're both transitioning and scaling in their careers. You get access and probably a lot of candid conversations with a lot of individuals out there and you yourself have been highly successful.
[00:42:54] What would you say is like some patterns that you've seen that have allowed people to reach, you know, [00:43:00] the next echelon, um, that a lot of our listeners are kind of
[00:43:03] Mike: aspiring to reach. Yeah. I mean, I got straightforward answer on this life as a team sport. Right. Be, be a good teammate. Be a good collaborator build and invest in your relationship.
[00:43:14] The, if you look at the Eisenhower box and how to spend time relationship building is actually, while it's very important, it's not urgent. You can kick the can down the road with your family, with your friends, you know, people, you went to school with all that, and, you know, investing in people and building relationships with them and be in that means also being there for them and helping out when they need it.
[00:43:35] You know, being the person who shows up to help someone move on a Saturday when they send out a text to 14, Being that one of the two people who shows up that kind of stuff makes a difference. And when you invest in relationships and you prioritize people, it's amazing, the doors that they will open up for you.
[00:43:51] I mean, a quick story on that is my classmate. From west point, Chris white Dell, his dad passed away when we were Firsties and you know, we'd stayed in [00:44:00] touch. He was at Fort hood at the same time. I was, he was an engineer. Deployed, you know, he ended up getting out, went into the energy and the oil industry, but in 2010, when I sent out an email to him, because Facebook was barely a thing back then.
[00:44:12] So this is like back in the email days, sending emails saying, Hey, I really want, you know, since starting this non-profit organization called team red, white, and blue would love for some of you to maybe host a veterans day rates to help kind of help raise some money and raise some awareness for what we're doing.
[00:44:26] And he was like, really one of like two people that responded. And, you know, he told me like a couple of years later down the road, Of like, Hey, you know, just, you know, like a big part of the reason why when you reached out and asked me to do that is like, I remember when you stopped by my room after my dad died and you, and you just, you know, just checked in and, and I, I, I vaguely remember doing that, but I don't remember.
[00:44:48] It's not like it was a vivid memory for me, but he remembered that and that led him to say, yeah, Nine years, eight years later, you know, after we both been to combat for, you know, till a four or [00:45:00] five times, you know, he said yes to that because it's, so again, the big takeaway is really prioritizing people.
[00:45:06] Um, and that when you do that, those people will help you succeed. Chris, why Dell helped and played a big role in team red, white, blue succeed. I get a lot of credit. Like the credit doesn't belong to me. It belongs to all the various people who have rolled up their sleeves and help to lead team RW. Right.
[00:45:23] Um, and so people, right, when you invest in them, they'll do amazing things to support the things that you care about or when you ask them for their support, they're there. Uh, and that to me is by far the number one piece of advice I give people because it's very easy to not in the world today to not do that, to watch the hell out of some Netflix and watch, you know, 18 hours of football on a Saturday and Sunday.
[00:45:48] Um, you know, there's the opportunity to, to really. You know, spend a lot of your time as being entertained. Uh, and when you can replace that with building relationships and doing things like hard [00:46:00] things like processing, check-ins like we do out here at the farm or going on a run or working out together and doing that stuff.
[00:46:06] That's that's relationship building stuff that, you know, leads people to, to be there for you and help you succeed because they want to help you succeed. Just like, you know, you want to help them succeed.
[00:46:17] Eddie: Yeah, Mike I'm fired up. Um, you know, it's, uh, it's Thursday, but I feel like it, you know, I'm re-energized for the week here, um, given all the different things that you've, uh, dropped as far as the knowledge and inspiration.
[00:46:31] Um, we really appreciate your time on the podcast today. Thank you so much. And, uh, really, uh, good luck with all of the different things in the book.
[00:46:39] Mike: Awesome. Thanks, daddy. I appreciate it. And yeah, I look forward to, to hearing how it, everything turns out and, uh, yeah, have a great rest of the day. Awesome.
[00:46:48] Thank you for
[00:46:49] Producer: listening to OnPoint. Please take a moment to rate and review the show. Wherever you're listening. It really helps us out. Also subscribe to our newsletter@oldgradclub.com and follow us on Instagram and [00:47:00] LinkedIn at old grad club. We'll see you in the
[00:47:03] Mike: next episode.