This episode features a conversation between Dr. Scott Parsons, Character Education Integrator for the Military Program at the United States Military Academy at West Point, and Dr. Tom Harrison, Director of Education at the Jubilee Centre for Character and Virtues at the University of Birmingham.
This episode features a conversation between Dr. Scott Parsons, Character Education Integrator for the Military Program at the United States Military Academy at West Point, and Dr. Tom Harrison, Director of Education at the Jubilee Centre for Character and Virtues at the University of Birmingham.
Dr. Harrison’s specialist interests include character, cyber-wisdom and the internet, character education and virtue ethics, and youth social action and citizenship education. He researches, publishes and gives presentations in the UK and internationally in these areas. He also develops resources and training programmes for schools, the voluntary sector and other organisations.
In this episode of On Point and the West Point Association for Graduates ‘Character Cut’ series, Dr. Harrison talks about how he coined the term ‘cyber-phronesis,’ its relevance at West Point in training young leaders, and the models he came up with for cultivating character in children. He also talks about his most recent book that focuses on how to cultivate character in your children so they can flourish online.
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“The path to full wisdom is never really completed. I don't think any of us can say that we're ever fully wise in kind of a moral sense, mainly because new situations and challenges come at us all the time. Look at the number of new quandaries and dilemmas that just living in the digital age has thrown up and et cetera. But it is considered that, you know, we hopefully become more wise over time.” - Dr. Tom Harrison
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(01:47) Introducing Dr. Tom Harrison
(02:44) About Tom’s book, Thrive –how to cultivate character so your children can flourish online
(06:25) Coining and defining cyber-phronesis
(08:58) The relevance of phronesis at West Point
(10:11) Phronesis in a combat setting
(10:55) Explaining the ‘thrive’ model
(15:10) Using the ‘react’ model as a young leader
(18:54) Virtues in Tom’s life
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West Point Association of Graduates
[00:00:00] Narrator: Hello, and welcome to OnPoint. This episode features a conversation between Dr. Scott Parsons character education development integrator for the military program at the United States military academy. And Dr. Tom Harrison, director of education at the Jubilee center for character and virtue at the university of Birmingham, Dr. Harrison's specialist interests include character, cyber wisdom and the internet, character education, and virtue, ethics, and youth social action and citizenship education. He researches, publishes and gives presentations in the UK and internationally in these areas. He also develops resources and training programs for schools, the voluntary sector and other organizations. In this episode of On Point and the West Point Association for Graduates, Character Cut series, Dr. Tom Harrison talks about how he coined the term cyber phrenesys it's relevance at west point in training young leaders and the models he came up with for cultivating character [00:01:00] and dr. Harrison also talks about his most recent book that focuses on how to cultivate character in your children so they can flourish online.
[00:01:09] Narrator: Now, please enjoy this interview between Dr. Scott Parsons and Dr. Tom Harrison
[00:01:20] Dr. Scott Parsons: today. Everyone. Welcome to the character cut podcast. I'm Dr. Scott. Retired us army officer and the character development integrator for the military program and the character integration advisory group here at the United States military academy at west point. Thank you for listening to today's podcast.
[00:01:36] Dr. Scott Parsons: Character cut brings together civilian expertise with army officer ship. The virtue that we will be discussing today is cyber phronesis or online practical wisdom, a topic that is not only important for west point. But other young people to include enlisted soldiers and officers in the military. This is my distinct honor and privilege to have Dr.
[00:01:54] Dr. Scott Parsons: Tom Harrison is our guest today on character. Cut. Dr. Harrison is a reader and HTA [00:02:00] principal fellow and national teaching fellow is also director of education at the Jubilee center for character virtues and the program director for the ma and character education at the university of Birmingham. Tom is also the books editor for the British journal of educational.
[00:02:14] Dr. Scott Parsons: Secretary and trustee for the society for educational studies and secretary and trustee for the association for character education, Tom's expertise and interests are in character, cyber wisdom and the internet character education in virtue, ethics use social action and citizenship education. Tom researches publishes and gives presentations the United Kingdom and internationally.
[00:02:37] Dr. Scott Parsons: And these areas as well as developing resources and training programs for school. The voluntary sector and other organizations, his most recent book is thrive how to cultivate character. So your children can flourish online. And it was published in the UK last January, 2021, and here in the U S the next month in February, Tom is also the host of the wildly popular conversations on character [00:03:00] podcasts, conversations on character, engages leading figures from across politics, education, and research, and ask them to reflect on their personal understanding of character.
[00:03:09] Dr. Scott Parsons: And to answer questions about how a focus on character has advanced a sector in which they work. It is my distinct honor and privilege to welcome Dr. Tommy Harrison, Tom, welcome to character cuts.
[00:03:19] Dr. Tom Harrison: Thank you very much, indeed. It feels strange to be on the other side with you hosting a me as a guest this time, but hopefully I can give some useful insights from this.
[00:03:29] Dr. Scott Parsons: Tom. I wanted to start off by talking about your book. It was an incredible book. I really enjoyed reading it and it's titled thrive how to cultivate character so your children can flourish online. And it's a book that you can get on amazon.com or amazon.co.uk. And as I understand it, your daughter eyelid getting her first smart phone was the impetus for the book and the idea for actually cyber fro nieces.
[00:03:50] Dr. Scott Parsons: Can you tell us a little bit
[00:03:51] Dr. Tom Harrison: about. Really the history of this book started in when I started my PhD quite a long time ago. Now, when I was looking at the influence of the [00:04:00] internet on the character virtues of 11 to 14 year old. So I completed that PhD and I did some further research beyond it. Um, but it was only when my daughter was just about to get a smartphone, a first smartphone when she was leaving primary school in the UK being in secondary school in the UK around the age of 11.
[00:04:17] Dr. Tom Harrison: I suddenly realized that I had all this theoretical knowledge, but not any idea about how this was going to play out practically and particularly given a kind of friends, colleagues and others were looking at me thinking here's a real life experiment. So Tom's research and practice. There was suddenly kind of a, a fear within me of thinking, do I really know how to help my daughter?
[00:04:36] Dr. Tom Harrison: Uh, live the most flourishing life she can in the digital age, given all the challenges, risks, and indeed, obviously, opportunities that come about. We're living in a digital age where children have such powerful tools in their hand. So that's what the book was really about. It was my exploration, looking for the research, going back over my theory and speaking to parents and observations around me to think about.
[00:04:58] Dr. Tom Harrison: What actual practical [00:05:00] steps or advice might I be able to suggest to other parents my situation when their children first get their smartphones, what might be kind of the best advice that I could give? And just the core focus of our book is on character wisdom. You'd you describe Southern finesse central?
[00:05:16] Dr. Tom Harrison: We'll talk more about that, but just in terms of character, what was clear to me? That a lot of the parents who advice to date have been about the rules that I needed to put in place my daughter, how to manage her use of phone when, where she could go, what she could use it for, which was absolutely necessarily clear.
[00:05:32] Dr. Tom Harrison: And we did put a lot of those blocks on, but I was very aware that when she left the home or when she was outside of kind of the home, or obviously when she left us, when she grew up. So those rules wouldn't be in place anymore. So ultimately she needs to develop the character qualities and as we'll come on to wisdom, that would allow her to make the best possible decisions using a smartphone, but indeed in the digital age, more broadly.
[00:05:55] Dr. Tom Harrison: So they call focus on the book is about the constipation character. [00:06:00] So, let
[00:06:00] Dr. Scott Parsons: me ask kind of a up question. So if someone who works in the field of character education, I know that in the Aristotelian sense from nieces is practical wisdom and you and your book and in our conversations, you've talked about cyber for nieces.
[00:06:11] Dr. Scott Parsons: Can you define that? And maybe describe a little in a little more detail of what cyber forensics.
[00:06:17] Dr. Tom Harrison: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, for each, this is the, uh, Aristotelian term that's normally translated as you say, as practical wisdom or lots of the theory that myself and also the center that I work at the Jubilee center at the university of Birmingham is based on more virtue ethical theory that originates in Aristotelian.
[00:06:35] Dr. Tom Harrison: Uh, philosophy. So hence we use a lot of the kind of concepts and ideas that time, but bringing them up to date for the government world, unfinished is one of those incredibly kind of useful concepts that many people understand. As soon as you've talked, start to explain that it's about the decisions that we make day in, day out.
[00:06:53] Dr. Tom Harrison: Basically different sorts of dilemmas and quandaries. So for nieces is normally translated as practical wisdom [00:07:00] and maybe best defined as, uh, making the right decision at the right time and the right place in the right amount. I added the prefix cyber. For a number of reasons. One of them is in its etymology Siva itself in Greek etymology from when the term side became strong, has been taken from the term helmsmen.
[00:07:19] Dr. Tom Harrison: And I just thought that was really nice app fit with finesses. Cause what we're ultimately looking for is children to, and indeed all. To find a path, the best way to navigate through all the kind of more complexities and contours of the worlds we actually live in. And it, and finished this, it's not about telling children how to behave or fixing the kids.
[00:07:38] Dr. Tom Harrison: It's about helping them to be able to make better decisions themselves, to be the helmsmen, you know, to be the, those steering, their use of technologies. Ultimately. So cyber seemed to fit very nice to go back to entomology. And then as I, the term. Or for nieces very much draws from that house possibly about, uh, you know, helping children make good moral decisions in particular kind of [00:08:00] virtues clash with each other, but also finding route, uh, kind of the right level of a, kind of a virtue to show in any particular decision.
[00:08:07] Dr. Tom Harrison: So it's very much about autonomous kind of judgment and thinking in particular situations that children face each selves.
[00:08:15] Dr. Scott Parsons: That's great, Tom. And that, that makes a lot of sense. And I know that you've worked with primary school and secondary school. You also work with the graduate students where you run the masters in character education program at the university of Birmingham.
[00:08:28] Dr. Scott Parsons: And so I know that you speak to a variety of groups about this and talk to a variety of age levels. And those of us that work at west point, you know, our primary concern are these cadets. Generally fall into the category of 18 to 22 years old. It's maybe slightly older. And so I was just curious why you might think that cyber phronesis would be particularly relevant to cadets at west point.
[00:08:50] Dr. Tom Harrison: Yeah. I mean, the path to kind of full wisdom is, is never really completed. I don't think any of us can say that we're ever kind of fully wise in there kind of a moral sense, [00:09:00] mainly because of the new situations and challenges come at us all the time. Look at the numbers. Countries and dilemmas that just living in the digital age has thrown off it, et cetera.
[00:09:10] Dr. Tom Harrison: So it is considered that, you know, we hopefully become more wise over time. And in particular, when children leave, as I've already said to security of homes and schooling, where they may be used to quite normal or kind of situation are rules around them. And what's the boundaries and expectations and go out into the world, whether it to be as a student and leave home or to go into employment, then that's when they're finished other practical wisdom really.
[00:09:34] Dr. Tom Harrison: It needs to kick in those settings because there is different sorts of freedoms or situations they're going to have to face. Um, I imagine within the cadets, there's clearly a very much a rule-based system within a loss of kind of, kind of cadet training in terms of those expectations, but they will still be different ways.
[00:09:50] Dr. Tom Harrison: They're going to have to learn to live a work alongside and study alongside different sorts of even colleagues. They're living a weight for the home for many of them, perhaps the first time [00:10:00] throwing up dilemmas and situations and moral quandaries where. Rules will not necessarily exist in those sorts of situations, or even through rules exists.
[00:10:09] Dr. Tom Harrison: They're going to have to take a character based approach to think about how best to interpret that rule in those particular situations. So I think it's a very important time ensuring young people's lives because they're moving out of these sort of situations where familiarity and boundaries were much more in place to that sense of freedom.
[00:10:26] Dr. Tom Harrison: So, I mean, my, my feeling is around that. That, although, um, you know, particularly for that setting, you're obviously much more expert than this Scott, but you know, in cadet setting, I think rules are going to be very need to be clear and particularly things like combat situations, et cetera, there needs to be clear chain of command, but.
[00:10:45] Dr. Tom Harrison: I imagined that that actually, you know, you can be a very good soldier in many ways by following those rules. But actually you're probably not able to be a cadet. Who's moving on to kind of more leadership positions, unless you're able to actually have the character virtues to know how to set those rules, how to [00:11:00] insert.
[00:11:00] Dr. Tom Harrison: There's rules, how to help other people interpret those rules in the different sorts of situations that you come around as well. So it's a, it's a really important stage, I think, in, in young people's lives when they can leave the home. And I think there's particular need for character within, within a cadets setting in your book,
[00:11:17] Dr. Scott Parsons: thrive, you consider and discuss the react and the thrive models.
[00:11:21] Dr. Scott Parsons: Could you explain these.
[00:11:23] Dr. Tom Harrison: Yeah. I mean, the first thing to say is my book, the thrive, and I've actually got another one coming out this year called future proof, which has kind of a companion piece of, but more for schools around a kind of a digital assistance. You have education curriculum. Both of them are designed to be very practical then.
[00:11:39] Dr. Tom Harrison: That completely based on kind of theory, particularly moral theory, but they aren't designed to be practical, but they're definitely not manuals. They are not something you can pick up and you kind of read through and you follow those things and children are going to come out and be basically wise and make all the best character based decisions.
[00:11:54] Dr. Tom Harrison: That's just not, it's just not out there. So they aren't sound to be practical. And I thought one way to help that practical approach was [00:12:00] to fill out a couple of models in there, which means. If anything else just help kind of parents remember some key points from the approaches that I'm trying to say and give a kind of a framework to hang some of the advice that I'm giving you in this book.
[00:12:13] Dr. Tom Harrison: So the react model is really showing the journey for rules to character, which I've mentioned a couple of times that we're recording already. So in terms of. And they kind of terms, it stands for the R is for rules, which are clearly absolutely necessary and should be in place. As I say, I think you'd be unwise to let your child completely free and loose with smartphone at the age of 11, without putting any restrictions on as they're completely there.
[00:12:37] Dr. Tom Harrison: But in many ways they're foundational and they're often the minimum expectations and about kind of managing or helping children to avoid harm. But if we want to have elevated expectations, we need to show them how to do that. And that's what the, he is that being good exemplars of this sin in ourselves and having good exemplars around us in a way we've got to help children to live within this digital world.
[00:12:57] Dr. Tom Harrison: It's not actually going away. They've got to actually [00:13:00] experiment and try it out and learn from it. And therefore we need to take the role of as a Bose, as very often, we may not know about the technology and it keeps changing and we may not know the terms, but what we do know about is a lot about often what is coming to the white character.
[00:13:13] Dr. Tom Harrison: The decision we can help our children think through the dilemmas that they're facing day in, day out online, the C stands for character champion with model, which is really just say championing current qualities as the ultimate kind of a mode for cyber wisdom approach to character. Cause it's helping our children to really see the things like compassion, honesty, integrity, courage, justice, all these.
[00:13:34] Dr. Tom Harrison: Purchase really matter. And the T of the models for thrive, which is hopefully what will happen if you follow the rat model, but also is always playing this very briefly, but thrive stands for the key and sorts of qualities. I think we need to help our children develop. And these are being fought for thinking about really the human nature of interacting online, being reason, able to be able to, to kind of think through the source of different, moral reasons that children face.[00:14:00]
[00:14:00] Dr. Tom Harrison: Uh, integrity are seen as different from just making continuous honest decisions. So not just the one-off, but actually what is a life and integrity? Who is that identity that you're actually representing in all of your digital interactions, particularly given that digital legacy is such a big thing right now, I focused on the other virtues, not mentioned there and ultimately the year Thrivers, the Caribbean children, young people to be exemplars themselves in a form of a virtuous circle because ultimately it is children and young people.
[00:14:28] Dr. Tom Harrison: Are going to be the ones who are creating the technology for future generations, but also the parents, employers and friends, et cetera. And therefore it's very important that hopefully their exemplars and that space selves. So the reaction side models, which is ways of kind of really highlighting, I think some of the key source of people that both parents need to be an, a key qualities that I think we should be seeking to help our children's.
[00:14:50] Dr. Scott Parsons: That's really interesting. And I know that your book is really geared toward parents and educators, helping their children in today's society. I've often heard that these young people refer to as generation Z [00:15:00] or gen Z. And like you said, their digital interactions are ubiquitous. That's pretty much everything they do has to do with online at seams and here at west point, when our cadets graduate they're commissioned as second Lieutenant, many of them are going to be about 22 years and age and they'll go into the army.
[00:15:16] Dr. Scott Parsons: No, I immediately get a platoon of about 40 people, 40 soldiers or so, and they're going to be in charge of these other that are from the same generation. So what are your thoughts about the importance of these young leaders that are going to be in charge of other young people? Having a good understanding or help them maybe use the react model in interacting with their.
[00:15:36] Dr. Tom Harrison: Yeah. I mean, it, wasn't obviously designed as I've already said, it's not a manual. It's a way I think of trying to explore that journey from rules, which I could say necessary to character, but I think as you speak now, it would be very applicable in other situations. Cause really we want so many of our leaders.
[00:15:56] Dr. Tom Harrison: In many ways, as well as kind of the people we work [00:16:00] alongside, um, to show these qualities, you know, all organizations require some rules and codes of conduct, some standards to be in place about what the expectations are for that. And this would definitely be the case for, you know, as you say, gen C students who actually.
[00:16:17] Dr. Tom Harrison: Coming and taking more kind of leadership responsibilities. You know, they, they have to be the rule maker, but you want them to be the exemplar as well. You want them to have people kind of following them and leading by example, but then a lot of this is so situation and relational and human. So actually.
[00:16:34] Dr. Tom Harrison: Those secondary tenants when they're positioned, we're also having to kind of work with individuals and kind of build relationships with them. And that's done through kind of, I think by much and not just teaching, uh, you know, people in that command, how to be, but actually kind of mentoring them, coaching them, supporting them, or advising them and giving that kind of a particular bespoke advice to the individual given on the situation.
[00:16:55] Dr. Tom Harrison: So. Right there. I've said a lot about carrots and the importance [00:17:00] of current. So ultimately for kind of flourishing individual societies. So they, you know, hopefully championing the character of those in their command will be really important as well. So I hadn't actually conceived the model as being used in other sort of situations.
[00:17:12] Dr. Tom Harrison: But now you say it, I think it certainly does have some could be replicated in, or hopefully they will say it may be useful in other situations. Yeah, that's, that's
interesting
[00:17:21] Dr. Scott Parsons: in that, you know, I've, I've known you for some time and a lot of your work in a variety of contexts, whether it's cyber or just generally character education, I've really tried to take that and mold it to what we do in the military.
[00:17:31] Dr. Scott Parsons: And so while you probably are not gearing it for that, I will say that it's been very effective, very useful for us. And so I appreciate all the work you do and what you do. So thank you for that before I let you go. I want to mention that on your podcast conversations on character, you ask your guests to pick a virtual format.
[00:17:46] Dr. Scott Parsons: And then describe an exemplar of that virtue from your life or from history. And I don't have a hat with me today, Tom, but I would love to know a virtue that is important to you and exemplar of that virtue, like put you on the spot. I would say you and cyber phronesis, but you probably would say [00:18:00] something different.
[00:18:00] Dr. Scott Parsons: Yeah.
[00:18:00] Dr. Tom Harrison: You really have to be on the spot here, Scott. And if nothing else, as I say, learning through experience is a good way to learn. So I do this to my guests all the time and now will not feel under pressure to think both a virtue and an example that a virtue. Pausing for thoughts as the brain Sherms over, what I'm working through is all the, and this is what's coming into my brain is all the people that are not examples of different she's right now.
[00:18:26] Dr. Tom Harrison: But I think, I think the sorts of thing that I'm a great believer of the kind of down the road here, or role model, because I think quite often we do. See these great exemplars. And quite often, they come up in my podcast. People like Andy and Nelson, Mandela, et cetera, who clearly are people that we aspire to, but often what's most empowering for children in school.
[00:18:45] Dr. Tom Harrison: It's down the road. It's just watching someone later call who's relatable. Who's close to them in their peer review. If you like. And I'm thinking of, you know, kind of people I know from the local school here, who a child is really stood up kind of incredibly [00:19:00] courageously. I will see. Uh, particularly moral courage is probably one of the hardest bird shoes to really show in practice.
[00:19:06] Dr. Tom Harrison: We all think it's good, but when you push it, it's so hard to sometimes can show that more crunch in a particular situation. Um, and you know, seeing, seeing children who just know that it's the right thing to stand separate from their peers, um, that situation I'm thinking about right now. So I can't name names as someone who knows that there's been wrongdoing going on.
[00:19:26] Dr. Tom Harrison: Online in this particular school. And as I stood up against, you know, kind of loyalty to peers and called out this particular situation, which needed to be called out, and I had the brave, brave step to actually enable them to do that. So when you hear stories like that, of, of kind of just inverted commerce, kind of ordinary business school, who just felt that this situation going on too much and they needed to call it out, that's the sort of thing that really makes my heart sing.
[00:19:51] Dr. Tom Harrison: I think in many ways, because I just know they've got is to show more courage, but how important. To go forward. So hopefully I've got to an [00:20:00] answer there somewhere in the end, Scott. Absolutely.
[00:20:02] Dr. Scott Parsons: No. And, and we find that same kind of dilemma here at west point. Are you loyal to your friends? It's the loyalty dilemma or are you loyal to the, you know, moral education or, or doing the right thing and moral virtue?
[00:20:14] Dr. Scott Parsons: So I, I totally understand that. I have to say it's been such an honor having Dr. Tom Harrison of the Jubilee center for character virtues and the university of Birmingham on the character. Podcast today, Tom, thank you so much for being with us today.
[00:20:27] Dr. Tom Harrison: You're very welcome Scott, and thank you so much for your challenging, but yet thoughtful questions
[00:20:33] Dr. Scott Parsons: that keep, please look out for the next episode of the podcast.
[00:20:36] Dr. Scott Parsons: Soon for character cut. I'm Dr. Scott Parsons.
[00:20:40] Narrator: Um, point is a production of the WPA O G broadcast network. Please take a moment to rate and review the show and join us each week for a new episode. Thank you for listening.