John unpacks his investing methodology across the various funds and organizations he’s managed capital for. It was fascinating to hear how his experience working with West Point AOG helped shape his vision for creating his own firm.
“My daughter just graduated from college. And my oldest son asked her, ‘what's the best advice dad ever gave you?’ She said: ‘Simple, if you're the smartest person in the room, you need to find another room.’ My career has been defined by being around talented people.” — John Robb ‘91
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Episode Timestamps:
*(01:45) - AAR - After Action Review
*(5:30) - Life after West Point
*(8:30) - How John got involved in Bernstein Wealth Management
*(11:10) - How John thought about investment management early in his career
*(13:30) - Get involved with local societies earlier rather than later
*(15:20) - The difference between investing at Berstein and AOG
*(22:10) - The Sitrep - The Situation Report
*(25:15) - The unique characteristics of investing West Point’s endowment vs. other universities
*(27:40) - The best advice John gave to his daughter and how he’s made career decisions
*(30:25) - The early fears and challenges John had to overcome when starting Stone Creek
*(35:45) - What Stone Creek is today vs. what John thought it was going to be in 2016
*(44:35) - How to manage your time
*(49:45) - How to think about long-term investing
*(56:15) - John’s mentors and how they’ve helped him
*(59:40) - SOP - Standard Operating Procedure
Links
Connect with Eddie on LinkedIn
[00:00:00] John: My daughter, Jill just graduated from college, Texas tech university. And my oldest son was also a Texas tech grad said to Jill, what's the best advice dad ever gave you? And she said simple. If you're the smartest person in the room, you need to find another room. My career has been defined by being around talented people.
[00:00:21] Producer: You are listening to OnPoint a show about veteran business leaders, entrepreneurs, executives, finance, seers, and social innovators who made a name for themselves in the military, and then took the private sector by storm. This show is hosted by the founder of the old grad club,
[00:00:35] Eddie: Eddie Kang. Hello and welcome to OnPoint.
[00:00:40] This episode features an interview with John Rob. John is the founder and managing director of the stone Creek group, which is an investment management and business advisory firm based in Denver, Colorado prior to stone Creek. John was the senior vice president and managing director with Bernstein global wealth.
[00:00:55] John is the former chair of the investment committee for the west point association of graduates and has served [00:01:00] on the committee since 2004. And is part of the west point graduating class of 1991. On this episode, John unpacks, his investing methodology across the various funds and organizations he's managed capital for.
[00:01:11] He was fascinating to hear how his experience working with west point Gog helped shape his vision for creating his own firm. Before we jump into it, feel free to check us out on LinkedIn and instagram@oldgradclubinonlineatoldgradclub.com. Now please enjoy this interview.
[00:01:30] All right, John. Thank you so much for being on, uh, we really appreciate it. Uh, your career path has been obviously something very special, unique, and I think that there's a lot of things that people can learn from it, but let's get into our first segment, the AAR or for non-military listeners, the after action review in this segment, we talk about our guests personal journey and the decisions that they made.
[00:01:53] We really kind of want to know basically from graduation, you know, what did you do in the military? How did you think about transitioning and then [00:02:00] what are the, what are the different roles that you had either, you know, obviously it's stone Creek, but then previously both men industry, as well as association with west point as well.
[00:02:10] John: Sure. So, um, I'll take it back to the decision to even go to west point. Um, I didn't know what west point was until my junior year, second semester in high school when, uh, coach Bob Sutton came to my high school to, um, recruit former or crit army football players. And so, um, I, uh, went up on my recruiting visit.
[00:02:32] It had never been east of Texas before I grew up in Houston and, um, got to experience cold for the first time. And so the only jacket that I even owned was my high school letter jacket. And so coach said, they'd pick me up at my house to take me to the airport in Houston. And we were going to fly up to west point together.
[00:02:52] And, um, he said, do you have a coat? And I just said, I have my high school letter, Jackie, so you better bring it. And, um, anyway, if not for coach [00:03:00] Sutton and coach young and really army football, I would not have ever gone to west point, frankly. And so, you know, I went to west point in 1987 as a plebe really was shell shocked.
[00:03:13] I, uh, thought I was going to be a hot stuff, football player from Houston linebacker, every, all the accolades in high school and go up to 'em. West point and start immediately. Well, I lost about 25 or 30 pounds and beast barracks and that put it into my dreams of contributing much, um, as a plea. But, um, tell us because army football has been a very important part of my life and a very important part of my cadet experience and it's important because, um, it segues into many other business opportunities that I have through my relationships with my, um, former teammates and other, um, former army football players.
[00:03:55] And so I graduated in 91 and, um, we [00:04:00] all know that desert storm was, um, going on when we were first ease. And, um, for Saddam Hussein was doing all sorts of saber rattling, talking about being the mother of all wars and using, um, Biological and chemical weapons on us. And, uh, Lee Greenwood actually sang the song at army Navy game that year in person.
[00:04:22] So it wasn't just a recording. So it was a really cool time in terms of patriotism in our country. And then, you know, thankfully the, um, war ended very quickly. And so many of us from a class of 91 spent the majority of our first year thinking that we were going to go to desert storm only to, uh, go out into an army.
[00:04:44] That was the pendulum was swinging the other way in terms of the DOD spend. And so I, and a number of others from, you know, the late eighties to early nineties classes of west point, and frankly [00:05:00] ROTC got out early. And so I got out of the army, uh, without a really. Notable army career, quite honestly. And so, but my first job out of the army was back in Houston.
[00:05:14] Um, my, my hometown.
[00:05:16] Eddie: Gotcha. And when you were leaving the military, you go back to Houston. What were you thinking? Like industry-wise sectors the private sector, like w what were you, what did you want to do, uh, what was available to you and why did you end up doing what you did?
[00:05:29] John: So, Eddie, I had no plan. I just wanted to move back to Houston, where I was from, where my wife was from.
[00:05:37] I'm a member of the 2% clubs. So I'm one of the lucky ones. And, um, Houston was home and I really knew nothing, you know, frankly, I, I was so terrible interviewing that I was rejected by, um, some of those, you know, junior, military officer, um, placement firms, [00:06:00] They, they didn't even make
[00:06:01] Eddie: exactly Lucas
[00:06:03] John: still existed.
[00:06:04] It didn't even accept me because, um, I was at Fort Riley and they came and interviewed me and I actually tried to answer all the questions really thoughtfully. And I came across in a very sort of laid back way. And the guy said, man, there's a real inconsistency between your resume, you know, um, which screams intensity and how you're sort of responding interpersonally.
[00:06:29] And I was a first time I really massively failed, um, at anything. And so I, um, sorted myself out. I'd really taught myself how to interview. I had a camera and I turned it on myself and I asked myself questions about, you know,
[00:06:47] John,
[00:06:47] John: tell me about yourself and using stories, your typical interview questions.
[00:06:51] Eddie: Well, I hope this isn't too, too. Uh, I hope this isn't a scary flashback then.
[00:06:57] John: It's very different now. Um, 30 years [00:07:00] ago, um, I was not particularly socially, um, adept, I suppose, but after critiquing myself, watching myself on screen, I saw how I was presenting and it was awful. And so interestingly, I went back to that same, uh, JMO recruiting firm.
[00:07:21] And I interviewed with the guy at his office and he said, I mean, this is a 180. It was just transformational. How much I learned by observing myself and how much better I had. The common. So anyway, so I had no great, um, plan on industries or fields. I got out and went into the mortgage industry and I was a retail mortgage loan originator, and I thought it was a heck of a first civilian job.
[00:07:56] I've loved the opportunity, uh, to be [00:08:00] compensated based on my efforts, in my contribution to my success, as opposed to my rank and my time and time and service. And so it, it suited me very, very.
[00:08:14] Eddie: Gotcha. Yeah. I mean, we hear that, um, actually pretty frequently. Um, and so you, you know, you, you get your first job in Houston working as a, in the mortgage industry.
[00:08:24] Eventually you Tran you transition again. Can you tell us a little bit about that and how you ended up working at Bernstein?
[00:08:30] John: Yeah, sure. So I, um, got back to Houston and was, um, recruited early on to give the young grad speech at founder's day. And so, uh, like many of us, um, having just gotten out of the army and falls on your shoulders.
[00:08:48] So there was a man at founder's day who was the head of the west point society at the time. His name is Dick Graff. Dick is class of 71, and Dick was in the investment management [00:09:00] business and Dick was a big army football fan. And frankly, a fan of my wife, um, my wife taught his, um, gave a son golf lessons and, uh, uh, She must be pretty good.
[00:09:12] Well, she was, you know, high school, pretty good. She got burned out and had, hadn't played a whole heck of a lot in the last, you know, many years, but she can still beat me pretty easily. So, uh, anyway, Dick was, um, the one who introduced me to the investment management business. He was a partner at a firm called criteria and they managed fixed income for institutions, you know, Taft Hartley's endowment.
[00:09:39] Pension funds, you know, clients like that. And he told me that I should go back to grad yeah. At school. And it didn't matter where I went to school. Um, so I had at west point was on my resume. And so I went to grad school on Saturdays for two years at a school at a San Antonio, our lady of the lake university.
[00:09:58] And I did it [00:10:00] and loved it. You know, it was really kind of funny. The first day I was in class, I was, I stood up when the instructor walked into the room, like a section marcher to give a report. And that I realized that, um, this is a very different and environment with people wearing flip-flops and tricky diet Cokes at their desks than what we had at school.
[00:10:21] But, um, I loved it and it was wonderful to learn about things that I was very interested in. Uh, and, uh, it helped me immeasurably transitioning from west point in the military. Civilian life. And Dick Graff is the one that told me that I should go to grad school. And it was Dick who really helped me sort of shaped my initial part of my, my career.
[00:10:47] Eddie: So at the time, what did you think? And like investment management can mean so many different things, right? It can mean your raising from high net worth individuals. It can mean that you're in [00:11:00] managing institutional money. It can mean you're the one that's primarily focusing on investing it. It can mean that you're raising it.
[00:11:06] Like how do you kind of think about your career within like the big pot, so to speak of investment management?
[00:11:12] John: So, um, my career has been on the client side and client generation, client servicing and in the lab. Not since I started the stone Creek group, it has also been on the investing side as well, but investment management you're right.
[00:11:28] Eddie, it's a big field. And Dick had really differentiated for me at the time. Remember, this is in the mid nineties that I didn't want to be on a transaction based business. He was much more of an institutional manager and believed that the industry should all head, whether you're your endowment or a pension or, or a Taft-Hartley or an individual or family office, it all should be transitioning to an institutional type of business, as opposed to getting transaction fees, you know, 5 [00:12:00] cents a share, 3 cents a share, whatever.
[00:12:02] And so when I first got in the business, I was hired at Bernstein. I'm very grateful army football connection helped me get the job at Bernstein. I was very active and stilly I'm in the army football. Um, used to be called the army football letter, winners, uh, association Nazi army football club. It's a, an affinity group at west point.
[00:12:23] And we have been meeting for 25 years for a golf tournament every summer. That's not pandemic related and it's afforded me the opportunity to get to know, uh, grads, former football players across, you know, across generations. So, you know, Jody Glor, former chair of AIG, class of 69, good friend, you know, young guys.
[00:12:46] Um, heck I got a phone call later on this afternoon with clay Daniel class of 2000 and, um, football player that we've all met through this affinity group. And you probably have a former tennis [00:13:00] player affinity group at west point. If, if not, you should start one.
[00:13:03] Eddie: So. There's a lot of west point woven into your kind of career up until Bernstein.
[00:13:11] I imagine it continued after it, you know, at some point you were working, I think, as the treasurer, right. For the university or for the Houston chapter of the west point society. Right. That's right. And then you eventually become moved to the, the, the actual board level, right?
[00:13:26] John: Yeah. So I, uh, if any advice I could give, and I know that there's time in our conversation for this, but, um, you know, really get involved with your local societies or other groups that you can possibly get involved with.
[00:13:41] And I got involved with a local west point society of greater Houston and it's a fabulous society. It really, it really is top notch. And, um, I, uh, was then asked Dick graphic. Yeah. At the same time as he's had this really great business career, he was [00:14:00] the vice chair of AIG. Um, and the chair at the time was, uh, general Ted Stroop.
[00:14:06] And then, um, Dick was being term limited off of the board of AIG, but he was still on the investment committee for AIG. And he recruited me because I had gotten the job at Bernstein and been in the asset management business for a few years to join the investment committee in 2004 for IOG. And that has really been transformative for me in so many ways.
[00:14:32] And so I was served on the investment committee until I'm still serving on the investment committee. I'm still very fortunate. And then in oh nine or 10, nine or 10, um, I became a director for AIG and served three-year terms before being term limited at the end of 2019. And so as the, as a director for AIG, I was also the chair of the investment committee [00:15:00] during that, that period.
[00:15:01] So now I'm a member of the, uh, of the committee, but I'm no longer the chair of it.
[00:15:06] Eddie: Gotcha. And how different was it managing money at Bernstein and working with different clients? How different was that role from being the chair of the investment committee at west point when it comes to like the thought process?
[00:15:18] And is it, was it interesting being kind of on both sides of that table in different forms?
[00:15:23] John: That's a really insightful question. And so my career Bernstein, I, I advanced rather quickly in the organization. Um, I was successful as a financial advisor and then made principal and then in oh four and then the firm decided to open up an office in the Rocky mountains.
[00:15:42] And so they asked me to move here to Denver where I live and start the business for Bernstein and the Rocky mountain region. And so I had the. Pleasure of hiring every person and, uh, picking out the art, picking out the [00:16:00] furniture, picking out the office, picking out the carpet, everything. And it was a really humbling experience and I am forever grateful for it.
[00:16:07] And so, but my job after I became a managing director was really hiring and developing financial advisors. And often the Bernstein model, it's a collaborative effort. And so I was frequently being brought in to deal with more complex clients and also help advisors learn the business. And so, but it was all really client oriented first as an FFA and human.
[00:16:36] And then, um, as an MD here in Denver, but then what my involvement with investment. Was the opposite, right? We were managing the money for west point. And so I like to doing that a whole heck of a lot, and I loved being part of this group of the folks, um, that, uh, uh, are [00:17:00] all very dedicated west point graduates who give of themselves their, um, time, treasure and talent, like no others.
[00:17:08] And, um, um, and I learned a tremendous amount from this group and, um, I wanted to implement personally what I was doing. Um, as my passion, I wanted to implement professionally what I was doing personally. And that's really why I started the stone Creek group because I wanted to manage money. Like we were managing money for west point, which was sort of different than how we were doing it at, at Bernstein.
[00:17:37] And I used to say that, you know, for years, We couldn't beat Navy. We couldn't be there force of football, but we were slaughtering them and investment results. And so now fortunately we're breeding them, uh, not only investing, but we're beating them on the football team. So that's good.
[00:17:55] Eddie: Well, I mean, and I can speak to I, so I graduated in oh eight, John and there [00:18:00] was a season where we didn't win a game and it was tough, you know, and we definitely didn't beat Navy during the four years that I was there.
[00:18:07] So I, I think that your during your time, we were probably better than during my time at west point in football. But, um, I do know that, uh, So I, I serve on the advisory, uh, as an advisory board member or whatever for AIG. And I do get some insights on some task forces and see how, how that, like, how it all works.
[00:18:27] And it's, it really is incredible the amount of time that people give to the organization, how hard they work for it, as well as ultimately what it ends up providing, uh, to the Corps and to the academy and the future of the army. So super, uh, super impressed by them.
[00:18:43] John: Yeah, it's been a material. I mean, as the investment committee, I feel like we've, um, made a material difference for our association.
[00:18:51] I mean, the purpose of the associative grad association of graduates is to serve west point and its graduates. And so, you know, [00:19:00] the types of programs that the cadets get to do these days are so much better, so much different than what was available. Back whenever I was a cadet. I mean, and going up for the leaders conference in August, you, you get to see and get to be introduced to these young men and women that are going out.
[00:19:19] And then some of them are doing programs in the summer that have impacted what's gone on in Afghanistan. I mean, and in Iraq and the, in a positive way. And, and so all of that is really privately funded. And so, you know, the purpose of the association of graduates fundraising is to raise money for the, you know, not the core, but the margin of excellence programs for cadets and our association has done a heck of a job with it.
[00:19:48] And our investment committee has really professionalized over the course of the last several decades to, you know, I'd say. Um, is among the best groups of, [00:20:00] uh, investment committee members anywhere. In fact, our mutual friend, Bob McDonald set, um, uh, joined our investment committee a couple of years ago. And I, um, I give him all the credit in the world because, you know, Bob is, you know, among the most accomplished west point grads.
[00:20:17] There are, there are, and he sat in our room and he, uh, just observed and how we worked and how the folks interacted. And, and, um, afterwards he said that he has been on the duke investment committee and they don't hold a candle to what we are doing it at west point. And so it's been a great, great experience.
[00:20:43] And so I think that you're going to enjoy being a director, uh, advisor and, um, get your feet wet and then, um, learn more and more about the inner workings of our association of grads. Yeah,
[00:20:56] Eddie: I hope so. It's, um, it's already been a [00:21:00] great learning experience, partly because, you know, you get to learn about how Westpoint functions and one thing that I know.
[00:21:06] AIG. And the board are trying to do is bring younger graduates into the fold as well, to get a better understanding across the graduate population, across the different decades. You know, where's the value that can be provided and, you know, they're helping, we've created this, you know, we're in the process of establishing this affinity group for careers and networking with EOG, which is actually a part of this podcast that you're on right now.
[00:21:30] I'm not sure if you were familiar with that, but basically, um, you know, the idea is, you know, there's different, important inflection points within people's careers when they leave the military. And those inflection points can be both super rewarding, but also super scary. And so by telling stories of, you know, super, super inspirational stories like yours, as well as some tidbits of knowledge that help educate people on how to make the right decisions and when, who to, who to, you know, really be in contact with when you need certain things, just making sure [00:22:00] that the long gray line is really there and accessible is really, uh, important.
[00:22:05] And continuing to give back. So
[00:22:06] John: yeah, I completely agree
[00:22:09] Eddie: onto the next segment, the sit rep or the situation report in this segment, we'll dive into what our guest is focused on today and how their vision is transforming the future of industry and society.
[00:22:21] John: I started the firm, uh, because I really was passionate about how we were managing money on west point's investment committee and to become more passionate about that than what we were offering at Bernstein, not the Bernstein was bad, just different.
[00:22:37] And, um, I was at the point in my career, probably 43, 44. I got very, very sick in, uh, November of 2012. I had multiple blood clots in my lungs and, um, was told that I had something like a 26% chance of. And that's a [00:23:00] real number to me. And I, um, was put on blood thinners and I couldn't ski that winter. And I ski a lot.
[00:23:09] I mean, I live in Denver and we've got a home in the mountains. And so that's kind of what we do all winter, weekends and such. And so I couldn't ski that winter and I, um, spent a lot of time snowshoeing out and, you know, far away places and alone in my thoughts. And I, at the time really didn't necessarily want to leave Bernstein.
[00:23:34] This was maybe 13 20 13. Um, and, but I felt like there was some things that we could be doing better and I wrote some ideas down and, and, um, went and presented them to various decision makers internally. And. They basically told me to pound sand and that's fine. Um, they, weren't going to be impactful to Bernstein as they needed to, to sort of move the [00:24:00] needle.
[00:24:00] And I had just read the innovator's dilemma. You're on the west coast, everybody reads Clayton Christianson out there. Um, and I had really created an idea on how we get sort of incubate a new idea and ultimately they rejected it. And so over the course of the next year, I sort of was reflecting and thought, you know, maybe it's time for me to leave and start my own firm.
[00:24:26] And so, um, ultimately I left and started stone Creek group as a investment advisory firm to manage folks money. And on the same way that we're managing west point's money and I believe that's the right way to do it. We've got a terrific track record at EOG and stone Creek it's because we really care it.
[00:24:51] Wasn't a transactional business circling all the way back to my original sort of mentor Dick Graff. And, um, and [00:25:00] so that's, that's why I left. And that's sort of the early sort of story behind.
[00:25:07] Eddie: That's awesome. And when you talk about kind of how we manage west point's money, like, is there anything kind of unique about it given that it's west point's endowment versus another school's endowment?
[00:25:16] Like, are there anything that unique characteristics to the fact that it's, you know, the U S military academy compared to, I don't know, call it any, any other college that might be out there?
[00:25:27] John: Mary and so many other colleges are called on to pay for the operation of the college. All right. So a certain amount of money that's coming into the association of graduates equivalent, or those out to pay for salaries and rents and insurance and all sorts of operating expenses.
[00:25:51] And so remember I said that the purpose of EOG was to pay for the margin of excellence, the RMS. Is paying for those [00:26:00] core expenses. And so we don't have in general, the responsibility of maintaining a lot of cash to pay for salaries and pay for op ex most of our expenses, if you will, our cap ex. And so one of the things that we've done that has been most impactful as a committee is do a deep dive into really how much money do we need to keep for operational expenses, you know, short duration types of expenses.
[00:26:36] And then how much can we put for more longer duration endowment types expenses. And we had, um, a number of committee members, uh, that you know, were really experts in this Howard burner. Mike Adlison mark Terrano, uh, to name it. And, um, we had recommended really a wholesale change [00:27:00] in the amounts of money that the association was keeping in short duration instruments.
[00:27:06] Um, as a result of this sort of deep dive,
[00:27:09] Eddie: at what point did you feel like this is, you know, something that you really wanted to do and kind of be in this investment field, kind of taking a step back, like, you know, there's a lot of different options that you could have kind of taken. It sounds like you've been consistently curious about different things and whether it's being involved with west point or on the financial advisory side, what, what kind of brought all of that together for you?
[00:27:37] John: I will say that, um, my third child, my daughter, Jill just graduated from college, Texas tech university. And, uh, we were there celebrating and having a double. And my oldest son was also a Texas tech grad said to Jill, what's the best advice dad ever gave you? And she said, simple. If you're the smartest person in the room, you need to find another room.
[00:27:59] And [00:28:00] my career has been defined by being around talented people and west point. You know, we all remember when we were new cadets going into Eisenhower hall or wherever. And, uh, they asked how many people were valedictorians of their high school class and all these hands go up and salutatorians and captains of teams and presidents of honors.
[00:28:22] And you look around and you're like, oh my God, all these people are just like me. And, um, you realize that you're, you just, you're in a different room than you were in Houston, Texas. And so I've been fortunate in my career. That I have been in rooms that are a lot like west point with lots of talented and lots of smart people where I've been able to absorb through osmosis, their talents and intellect.
[00:28:52] And I, uh, I think that that's one of the reasons why I've been successful. I've been very intellectually curious. That's another [00:29:00] little bit of advice is, is be a lifelong learner. And I've learned more, you know, in the last five years than I probably learned in my entire formal education experience. And so, um, I guess that's sort of ed and Bernstein.
[00:29:18] We had a lot of smart and a lot of talented folks in, and I enjoyed being around those guys in the investment management business. You're generally with top tier talent and that has helped, I suppose, solidify, um, the field for me. Um, and the other thing Eddie is, you mentioned the intellectual curiosity.
[00:29:42] I also know myself, I, uh, I kind of figure something out and get a little bored after about three or four years. And so the neat thing about the investment with misses. Yeah. I mean, and is, is it's always changing and, um, and being [00:30:00] self-employed is afforded us the opportunity to learn about a whole bunch of new things that, um, we didn't know before then sort of capitalize on opportunities that, um, you know, wouldn't have really presented themselves.
[00:30:15] Had I stayed, uh, no, a W2 employee Bernstein.
[00:30:20] Eddie: When you went off to start as stone Creek. What were the, what were the fears and the challenges that you had to overcome in order to really get the firm up and running from day one?
[00:30:31] John: So fears and challenges there quite a bit, but, uh, like most entrepreneurs, when you're starting a business, you make plans about things that you expect will go well, and then things that might not go as you expect, and then things that you flip a coin.
[00:30:48] And so we had a few challenges up front where some revenue opportunities that we had really planned on kind of banked on didn't materialize. But [00:31:00] fortunately we had some others that we sort of put into the stretch category that, that did materialize. But, um, you know, one of the big challenges was, you know, I was in my mid forties whenever I started the company and I had, my oldest was starting college.
[00:31:15] And then I had two more in the next three years. And so I knew that I was. Four kids in college at the same time. And so from a financial standpoint, that that was quite a burden at the same time, starting a company. And so really proud of the fact that we, we never missed a payroll and we were able to get the whole thing started.
[00:31:37] I depleted my liquid savings, you know, pretty, pretty dramatically, but, you know, that's what I was willing to do. And my wife was very supportive of it. And so from a challenge standpoint, now, starting the business in your forties with kids that are going into college, arguably the most [00:32:00] expensive phase of our lives.
[00:32:02] Um, that was, that was a real, real, real challenge. But, um, you know, I think entrepreneur-ism is good. And whether you start in your twenties or thirties or forties, or even later, I think that west pointers and veterans in general are well-suited towards entrepreneurial.
[00:32:20] Eddie: For sure. And so, John, when you were saying revenue opportunities, just to be clear, are those, are you talking about money coming from clients or you're talking about opportunities to put the money to
[00:32:30] John: work?
[00:32:30] Um, good question. No, it was the former. So, uh, in, in the asset management business, you know, we charge quarterly. And so those come
[00:32:40] from
[00:32:40] John: clients, assets under management. And so some clients that I was very, very close to and had worked with for a long time and fully expected were joining me didn't for whatever reason.
[00:32:51] And like I said, others that I put in the stretch category kind of did. And so whenever I was, um, leaving, um, [00:33:00] Bernstein as a managing director there, I was, you know, subject to some pretty tight, restrictive covenants in my employment agreement regarding solicitation. And I honored all of those. We, uh, negotiated them and over the course of my 90 day period called garden leave and, uh, And we came to a mutually agreeable spot where, you know, there were certain number of people that I was permitted to talk to and of those, you know, some came some chose to, you know, do something else.
[00:33:33] And so, yeah, that's Eddie, what I'm talking about. Gotcha.
[00:33:36] Eddie: Oh, that must've been a, a pretty, did you feel like a lot of anxiety during that time? I, how did you sleep well? Like how, what was life like that then?
[00:33:45] John: No, I'm sure I can sure. Tell you I don't sleep well even today. Um, so that's probably a bit, one of the tough things about entrepreneurial-ism is, is the sleep and that, um, anxiety that you feel seem seemingly all the time.
[00:33:58] But, um, [00:34:00] yeah, that period, and really the first, all of really 2015, I, I, uh, left Bernstein on January. The second of 2015 is when I officially resigned. And then I had my 90 day period, which was basically all of Q. And then could start the business, um, after that. But yeah, I didn't take any money out of the business for the, you know, well over a year and had to capitalize it, to pay employees and pay for computers and overhead and travel and all those kinds of things.
[00:34:32] And so, um, it was a very anxious period. And like I said, I had one that had just started his freshman year of college. And so, um, not a lot of sleep in those days steady.
[00:34:46] Eddie: No, I, I can imagine. And, um, but it's, uh, it's been an interesting run in the bar gets, I suppose, from, uh, this year 2016 to today. So I imagine your clients are really happy and all that.
[00:34:59] All [00:35:00] all is good now. Um,
[00:35:01] John: yeah, yeah, yeah. It's been a good, it's been a good period. One of the fun things about owning your own business is the ability to. Really pivot and, um, capitalize on opportunities that, you know, you, you, you perceive could be meaningful in the near term. And that's one of the opportunities that, uh, you know, we can talk about if you'd like, because you know, the investment management business is really our core skillset, but we've been able to, um, allocate capital and our balance sheet and do some other things that, um, you know, sort of round out let's now kind of become a portfolio of, of stone Creek companies.
[00:35:43] Eddie: Well, I'd love to hear about it just because I think that that's kind of unique to stone Creek within, um, within the fields. W what is stone Creek today versus what you thought it was going to be on, you know, January 2nd, 2016?
[00:35:56] John: Yeah. So, um, uh, 2015 actually is when I started, so, yeah, [00:36:00] yeah, no worries. 22nd, 2016.
[00:36:02] Okay. Uh, we had already kind of pivoted a little bit, but yeah, today the stone Creek group of companies, um, the asset management company is really where I spend most of my time, but we have a financial consulting company, which is considered to be kind of an outsourced CFO type of business. And we started that because we had met a client that had an international business think of their business as sort of like a Tony Robbins speaking, motivational training type of business, and a sort of like a multilevel marketing, like a Tupperware or Mary Kay, where people get trained to go out and do their, their sort of proprietary techniques to sort of people development.
[00:36:50] And it was an international business and they were really in a challenging position with respect. The growth in their sort of [00:37:00] financial controls and keeping up with the growth of their business. And so they asked if we could help them out and implement net suites for them. I don't know if your listeners are familiar with NetSuite's you probably are.
[00:37:12] Um, yeah, it's a pretty comprehensive program. And honestly, Eddie, I didn't know much about it at the time, other than I'd heard of the company. And so I said, yeah, sure, what the heck? And so I figured I could figure it out. And so we called on our network of people that knew a lot more about NetSuites than we did, and we sort of talked our way into and, you know, by the grace of God, we're hired to implement NetSuite's for, for, for this company.
[00:37:40] And so that was a pretty big project over the course of period of time. And, um, ultimately. That's how stone Creek group consulting services started. Um, simply as a response to, to them, not terribly long after we had the opportunity to really get into the oil and [00:38:00] gas business and so much of our reach.
[00:38:03] And in fact, today I'm flying to Houston. I'm originally from Houston. And so I sort of grew up in the oil field and, um, we had another client who, um, owned some assets and, um, and sort of one of these unconventional plays, I don't know how much your listeners know about oil and gas, but if you think technology has advanced a lot in Silicon valley in the last decade, It's rivals, you know, that the technological advances in the oil and gas business actually.
[00:38:33] And so, um, you know, with the unconventional drilling and the speed in which upstream oil and gas companies were drilling, um, at the time, you know, call it 2016, you know, 15, 16 oil prices had really collapsed, but yet, you know, these upstream oil and gas companies were being incentivized to add to their proven reserves, which is borrowing money drilling really, really [00:39:00] quickly.
[00:39:00] And their costs, the capital was really low. And so when you had individuals who were co-owners with them, and some of their operations working interest owners is what it's called and the oil and gas space, these owners of their working interests have to pay their pro-rata share of the drilling and completion costs of well.
[00:39:24] Prior to earning any revenue. And so, you know, if a company and upstream oil and gas company is drilling quickly, they may be calling capital for all of these drilling and completion costs. And it could be six months or more before those efforts from drilling and completion ended up generating any revenue as the oil goes downstream, upstream, midstream to downstream.
[00:39:50] And so it put a lot of people in a bit of a bind, because if you don't actually participate in these, um, [00:40:00] capital calls to invest, then you end up potentially losing your working interest. And so we were able to put together a small partnership that was able to acquire some of these working interests.
[00:40:14] And so that's how we ended up getting into the oil and gas business. Again. The whole entrepreneurial spirit, being able to sort of capitalize on things in the short term and then stone Creek financial consulting kind of, uh, came I, uh, expert of managing oil and gas interest. Right. And, uh, in fact that's what that business is today that business had worked its way out of the sort of, uh, international outsource CFO for this other company.
[00:40:46] Um, they can frankly do what they need to do now paying a bookkeeper, um, because they're in good shape, but the other, but it's pivoted to basically managing oil and gas, um, assets. So that's a [00:41:00] couple of our companies. Yeah.
[00:41:02] Eddie: So a couple of the companies, how many companies are there in total, John?
[00:41:07] John: Uh, but, uh, we, we have, um, geez, we have, uh, a company I'm really most excited about these days, um, is called stone Creek pumps.
[00:41:17] If you were to look it up, it's DBA doing businesses, Falco, T H E L C O. It's an industrial pump manufacturer and distributor of pump parts. And so it's nothing particularly sexy. You know, you can't get an app to make a pump, but, um, if you are moving fluid, whether it's water or syrup or milk or whale or anything, you need a pump to do it.
[00:41:44] And so it's an interesting market to me and we have the opportunity, again, didn't know it necessarily, but in 2019 we had the opportunity to. By this pump company and by the real estate that it's on. And [00:42:00] so like most small business manufacturers, there's a warehouse. We have a 40,000 square foot warehouse on a couple of acres here in Denver and an industrial district actually, it's in an opportunity zone.
[00:42:12] Okay. Wow. And, um, yeah, which is pretty interesting. And so we bought the, this company and we've owned it now, four quarters. So we owned it, we bought it basically the end of Q2, beginning of Q3 of last year. And it's been great, you know, it's afforded me the opportunity to move my son back. My son is 26 now.
[00:42:36] And, um, he's, you know, actively working every day. I I'm very involved with the business, but again, I'm not running the day to day putting the pumps together or, or giving the purchasing and such, but, um, but it's enabled us to bring some. Modern sort of management techniques to a business that, you know, they were [00:43:00] doing everything in triple kit with the pink sheet, go into the shipper and the white sheet go into the, you know, the accounting department and things like that.
[00:43:08] And, and, uh, I had, and it was actually a very well run organization, but just using tools from the nineties, you know what I mean? So, Eddie, a funny, funny story is the general manager. She was terrific and she'd been there for 30 years and, um, I go into her office and I see a typewriter sitting on our desk and I said to her, what's the typewriter for national
[00:43:34] Eddie: typewriter.
[00:43:34] John: Yeah. Yeah. An IBM typewriter. I said, what is a typewriter for? She goes, well, I, I have to type the employee's paychecks every two weeks. I said what? Yeah. So she actually typed the employee's paychecks and hand delivered them every other Thursday and did all of the various filings for unemployment and federal filings, state filings and things like that all manually.[00:44:00]
[00:44:00] And so it didn't take a rocket scientist to realize that if we were to bring in QuickBooks and some more up-to-date accounting practices, we could get a lot of efficiency. Right, right there. And so that's an example of some of the things that we're doing with that
[00:44:18] Eddie: business. That's awesome. And so, and I love how you're, so there's, there's a lot of businesses out there.
[00:44:25] I imagine that I don't know if they're using typewriters, but perhaps the technology, the management and the processes are a little bit outdated. Well, how much of your time today do you spend operating the seven companies that you're involved in? Versus going out and finding more companies that can be transformed in a, perhaps a more efficient way.
[00:44:46] How do you allocate your time?
[00:44:48] John: Good question. Um, and I have to say for the last year or two, I have spent virtually zero time looking for other companies that I could fill out and sort of fold into what we've [00:45:00] got. And I know that there are opportunities out there. There's just exactly what you said. And in some small businesses we're talking, you know, $5 million of revenue or less types of businesses that have really good margins.
[00:45:11] I mean, they really do, but they just have not really embraced the technology that we've got today. They exist and we could certainly pull them in and capitalize on economies of scale. But I've just been really the last couple of years at a trying to make sure sorting out what we currently have. And it's interesting, you bring this up because it's just last week.
[00:45:34] My son and I were talking about. Business that there were sort of looking at that actually might fold in pretty well to our pump business. It's the first time I've sort of fought in that way in about a year or two, you know, really kind of seeking something that might make sense.
[00:45:50] Eddie: Gotcha. So now that I'm kind of really getting to understand the business a little bit.
[00:45:56] Do you classify your, your investment business in a certain way? I mean, in the [00:46:00] world of private wealth management versus, uh, you know, minority states, or I dunno if you take minority stakes, but maybe a venture aspect to it, like how, how do you think of stone Creek?
[00:46:10] John: It's really a good question. And my way of thinking about it is evolving.
[00:46:17] You know, it was an investment business. It is an investment business, money management business, private wealth. However you want to sort of think of it in that way, but we have been fortunate that we've been able to identify other businesses that have made sense. Identified other types of investments that we've been able to afford our clients self storage, as an example, you know, I mean, we, we created partnership to invest directly with developer of self storage units a few years ago.
[00:46:47] And because I didn't want to invest in a reap that was just dedicated to self storage. I wanted to be able to capitalize on the economics of the developer side. You know, they like in private equity or in [00:47:00] hedge funds, you know, the carried interest that we're familiar with in those terms in the real estate world, it's called the promote.
[00:47:07] And so it's the same type of structure. And so, you know, I wanted to be able to offer the economics of that to our clients. And so that's what we're doing with some of the investments that we've made. Minority investments, as you may say, are passive types of investments. In addition to the public market types of things that you would be very familiar with, but the stone Creek group of companies now, um, I, I actually am in the process of interviewing accounting firms because our situation has gotten so complex in the last several years.
[00:47:47] My accountant who's been my accountant for about 15 years, asked me to we've heard. So I know an interesting conversation. She [00:48:00] said that she no longer has the set of skills that she needs in order. Serve what we're doing. And so as I've been interviewing these accounting firms and they said, oh, where you are in our family office practice, you'll be in our family.
[00:48:15] And I said, what are you talking about? I'm not
[00:48:17] Eddie: a fan. I'm
[00:48:18] John: not a failure. Right? Exactly. Oh, no, no, no. You, you or the complexity of your various activities is family office. I said, oh, a family office. They're like billion dollar family offices. You know, that's how I think of it. You know, I don't think of it.
[00:48:32] Um, you know, collection of illiquid assets necessarily. But, um, so from an accounting standpoint, to answer your question, I'm starting to have to think of our holdings and doing this kind of like a family office and then the clients that we have on our investment. Yeah. Are really co-investors in everything and not everything and many of the things that we do.
[00:48:56] And so they're very much like family and that's the [00:49:00] luxury that we have as a private business is that, um, many of our clients are west point graduates. Many of our clients have been friends and, you know, go to my kids' weddings and, you know, we give them baby gifts where they're, it's a very intimate type of family kind of relationship.
[00:49:19] And so I'm sort of thinking about things in the family office terms. Eddie, if you really want to know the truth now.
[00:49:25] Eddie: Yeah, no, it's fascinating. And I know that that world is, is both, um, Kind of a little bit opaque, but also there's a lot of variety between different types of family offices that are out there.
[00:49:37] And so is there any type of firm family office or institutional firmer or any type of firm out there that like in the, you know, 10, 20 year range, you'd love to kind of model stone Creek after? Or is this more just like, we're gonna, we're gonna fly the airplane as we're building it or building airplanes we're flying it.
[00:49:55] John: Yeah. I mean, that's another good question. I, I, haven't taken a pit stop long enough to [00:50:00] think about that, to be honest with you, you know? Um, and so I guess flying the plane, driving the car along the way and filling it up and getting oil changes on the fly have really been kind of what we've done. Um, I have to say, I, I like not having partners and, um, that sounds weird, you know, given that everything that we read about and hear about.
[00:50:25] Learn about on podcast is related to going out and raising money and getting venture capital and round this and round that and valuations of this and try to take a company public and, or do a SPAC or do whatever. Um, I, I actually like not having partners because I can think long-term really, long-term, I'm not necessarily keen on trying to maximize what everything we're doing in the short term and quarterly and all that type of deal.
[00:50:58] And, you know, I think about [00:51:00] things, like I said, from a family perspective. And so I want whatever we assemble and whatever we're able to do at a, to be durable, to be able to last across economic cycles. Um, as we know, things that go up do come down. And so I'm looking for things that are lowly correlated with everything.
[00:51:19] And I want my kids and, you know, who knows ultimately grandchildren, you know, whatever way to, to be involved.
[00:51:27] Eddie: That's so cool. And not to pivot too hard into the current economic situation we're in, but Jesus, somebody who thinks across asset classes has been involved in the investment game for a while. I, you know, I, I have to kind of ask where do you see the opportunity today?
[00:51:42] And given the, you know, kind of extremely low interest rate environment, that we're in a lot of the different economic variables that are kind of affecting different markets, if you think really, really long-term, where is the opportunity that you're kind of really thinking today?
[00:51:58] John: So I, I [00:52:00] think that we have the opportunity with such low interest rates to do things that, um, you know, our parents' generation and parents, parents never were able to do.
[00:52:10] And, you know, really, it makes no sense to hold. Whole bunch of cash today, you need to get it invested. And the fed is, is, is basically robbing money from the savers who would otherwise be, you know, octogenarians living on fixed income and giving it to the people who are spending and investing in trying to grow to the future.
[00:52:34] And so I really do like these industrial businesses that are $5 million or less that have the opportunity to create efficiencies that we've talked about. Yeah. I mean, we own said large cap tech names in our portfolio that have really been great. And you know, I look at the top 10 names and the S and P 500 and they represent something like 28% [00:53:00] of 30% of all the earnings of the S and P 500.
[00:53:03] So yeah, their market cap is really high, you know, 27, 20 8%, but that's correlating to their earnings percentage of the S and P 500. You know, when the internet bubble burst, you know, 20 odd years ago now you had similar market cap weighting of the top 10 names in the S and P 500, but their earnings percentage of the S and P were in the mid teens.
[00:53:26] And so they didn't have the earnings necessarily to justify the increased valuation. Yes, they're expensive, but boy, they're just printed money and, sorry. Yeah. I actually think that having exposure to the core. You know, top 10, you know, big tech names, that's an important sort of part of anyone's portfolio.
[00:53:48] And I think that we should own those irrespective of what the cyclical nature of the environment. Those are sort of secular them types of names. You [00:54:00] know, I think that we're going to see some cyclical growth, you know, here with interest rates, being low with economies, opening up again. Manufacturing is going to pick up.
[00:54:09] And, you know, frankly, these names, the smaller cap names, the value names have really underperformed dramatically over the course of the last half, dozen, odd years. And so it's time to see them starting to run. And we've seen some leadership this year, pass back and forth between big tech and, and, you know, value, you know, utilities, railroads, energy companies.
[00:54:32] But I personally believe that, yes, you should own both. And, but I like long-term the smaller privately held. You know, opportunistic types of companies. Cause you know, you think about it, you've got a value. You, you got a bunch of baby boomers out there that are retiring. And so we've talked about this great transfer of wealth from baby boomers to the next generation.
[00:54:57] Well, sure. A lot of it's liquid sitting in [00:55:00] 401k plans and, and retirement assets and that's all transferring, but a lot of it's illiquid too. And, and, you know, in companies like the pump companies that I described or some of these other things that w that, that we know about. And, uh, and I think that with some modern management techniques, you can really get the profitability out of those companies.
[00:55:22] So,
[00:55:23] Eddie: yeah, absolutely. It's, um, you know, there's a lot of people chasing different markets out there and it's. I think your perspective is really fascinating because you get to see a lot of it, whether you understand the public markets and having, you know, chaired the endowment, um, at west point, I'm sure you had to think about, it's almost like your job to think about all the different asset classes that are out there.
[00:55:44] And what actually kind of makes the most sense at a certain given period of time, given risk and all these different factors, but it's a fascinating seat when it comes to perspective. And I think that that's invaluable in a lot of ways, especially today, given how dynamic things are. And so. [00:56:00] Yeah. And another question I wanted to ask you is, you know, we've talked about your career progression, the risks that you've taken.
[00:56:07] Um, the, a lot of the awesome successes that you've had with stone Creek who have been the people that you've come to, if anybody is when you've had questions, you know, you might call them mentors, you might call them friends. Um, but who's kind of been instrumental to you, you know, being able to stand up stone Creek or thinking about pivoting away from Bernstein or, or really, you know, doing amazing things when it comes to building the west point endowment in the way that it's really grown.
[00:56:31] John: Yeah. I've been lucky. I've been very lucky. I've had some very good mentors. Um, we had mentioned earlier in our conversation, Dick Graff class of 71, he's the one that introduced me to the investment business and was integral in getting me involved with the association of graduates and the investment committee, uh, Randy Pace, class of 67.
[00:56:50] We may have mentioned him off line. I would not have gone to west point. If not for, for Randy. He, uh, is like a father to me and he. Has [00:57:00] recruited tons, I think over 500, Tom Dyer told me one time, young men and women from the greater Houston area to go to west point that, you know, may have been, you know, first people in their family to go to college and, and didn't even know what west point was until he called.
[00:57:17] And I fall into that, that group. I didn't have a clue what west point was. I went up to my recruiting visit and I'm doing use may rara use me rara,
[00:57:27] Eddie: what is this? Right,
[00:57:29] John: right. Exactly. I mean, it
[00:57:31] Eddie: looks weird to anybody outside the academy.
[00:57:33] John: I'm sure. Yeah. And I said, United States, military academy, I, I thought this was west point and I said, no, it's the same thing.
[00:57:40] I said, really? I had no idea. And so if not for Randy, Randy, I would not have even, even. Or, or, or done that, you know, and, and, and honestly, over the course of my career, even, you know, later in some of these entrepreneurial ventures in the last, you know, [00:58:00] half dozen, odd years, um, you know, I've had clients and I've had friends that, uh, are not only west point graduates, but, but others that I've, I've leaned on to give me some support and advice along the way.
[00:58:16] You know, my, my dad, he, um, you know, he, I think is a really, really smart guy. He never graduated from college, but he was always very entrepreneurial and maybe the best salesman I've ever seen in my life. And so my dad always encouraged me to own my own business. And, uh, I always thought that that's, that, that was a big goal of mine.
[00:58:37] And so, um, you know, you turn it. My father's and my mother's, um, debt for couraging me to be, be, be self-employed. But, um, yeah, but those are some of the folks, you know, um, I actually am friends with a number of guys on the investment committee that have all been, I've learned a lot from a ton from, uh, whether it's, uh, bill will be [00:59:00] or Ashby foot or chill.
[00:59:01] Shire's, you know, I can name them all and other people within AIG that my involvement on the board really helped me see into a lot of other industries and learn how to be a real, you know, professional. Um, and so folks like, you know, our, our mutual friends, bill Merde and, and Bob McDonald, um, you know, have all taken time for me over over the years.
[00:59:25] And I'm, I try to pay that forward.
[00:59:28] Eddie: Yeah, well, I you're doing that right now. Um, by hopefully speaking to a lot of different listeners and the story has been really fascinating. Yeah. Let's get into our next segment, the SOP or standard operating procedure in this segment, we're going to talk about the personal routines habits and words to live by that have been instrumental to our guests success.
[00:59:49] It sounds like intellectual curiosity is a big thing. Are there any habits? Um, I'm always really curious to know, like, are there any habits or behaviors that you've consistently done? Like maybe it's just drinking a lot of [01:00:00] water or waking up at a certain time or whatever it is, but is there, is there anything that you do that is, has been consistent across your career that you've brought across the different stages that, that, you know, you can attribute to some of your success?
[01:00:13] John: No, really what's been transformative for me is reading and then implementing things that I read that I believe would be helpful. And on our investment committee, we, we sort of have our own informal book club and, uh, this was started by a gentleman named Ashby foot and he would distribute books at our face-to-face meetings and we've since, um, agreed.
[01:00:39] What Ashby pick out the books, but he's no, he's no longer having to underwrite them all the time. And so, but I think a lot of us enjoy what, uh, what we've all read. And there was a book several years ago by gunning Charles Murray. And, um, it was called coming apart and it is one of these memorable ones for me.[01:01:00]
[01:01:00] And, um, I won't really get into the details, but the conclusion was sort of this notion of happiness and across socioeconomic groups across, you know, races, across religions, across all these things. There were really just four elements that led to happiness. If you want me to tell you what those were?
[01:01:21] Yeah,
[01:01:21] Eddie: maybe. I mean, I'm, I'm very, I'm very curious.
[01:01:25] John: I haven't read the book in a long time, but I mean, I, I organize my day sort of in this way too. So one happy people do meaningful work, all right. Work that they find meaning, and they're not just punching the clock and then. Just her doing it for a paycheck.
[01:01:40] They're, they're either part of a team, a company providing meaning for others. You know, it's more than just a paycheck. You have to do something that you find meaningful second family. Um, you're going to be getting married here soon and that's awesome. Um, interestingly, his research [01:02:00] said that married people are generally happier than unmarried people.
[01:02:03] And if I recall this, this was actually kind of striking to me folks that, um, identified as unhappily married were actually happier than folks that were happily unmarried. I thought that was kind of interesting. And so, um, meaningful work and, and family, and then third community involvement in America.
[01:02:30] We're very lucky. We have so many opportunities to be involved in our communities, whether it's our west point community. Our local societies or, you know, nationally on the a, to G level, as advisors, as directors, whatever it may be. We've all kinds of veteran organizations work related, associations, community associations, hos local hospitals.
[01:02:54] And I also sort of put friends in this, this group, um, community [01:03:00] engagement. And I also think that if I've sort of modified Charles Murray a little bit, and I put having good personal connections with good friends in this third category. So we've got, um, meaningful work. We've got family, we've got community involvement and then finally religion.
[01:03:17] And so people who are religious irrespective of the religious are generally happier than people who are not religious. And interestingly people who characterize themselves as religious and, and attend church or synagogue or whatever services regularly. Are happier than people that call themselves religious, but don't go.
[01:03:42] Maybe they just go on Easter or Christmas. And so, so you're
[01:03:47] Eddie: saying you actually have to practice for this to count
[01:03:49] John: almost. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so I think it makes sense. Yeah. I read this book, you know, maybe dozen odd years ago or 10 years ago or [01:04:00] something. And I realized that I didn't have all those boxes checked.
[01:04:04] You know, I didn't find the work I was doing at the time to be meaningful. Secondly, I was fortunate. I had the family box checked. I, I, I married my high school, sweetheart, his mother of my children and really my best friend and the love of my life. I'm very, very lucky. I had the third box check community involvement because of my engagement with west point.
[01:04:26] And I was deriving a lot of fulfillment from that, but I didn't really have the fourth box checked either. Um, Didn't know very much about religion. And I sort of struggled with this whole notion of how do you rationalize freewill with some master plan. And I think a lot of us as we've been sort of exploring our, our own faith struggle with, with that.
[01:04:51] And that was one that I had struggled with for a very long time until I sort of figured it out for me. And, um, once I was [01:05:00] able to sort of reconcile that friction in my mind, I chose to become religious. And so every day, um, I have a black book. I keep all my notes and these hard back black books. And you want to see what my notes were from September of 2015.
[01:05:20] You could go back to my, my book. I keep them in chronological order, but I type, I write on the paper, you know, um, work family, community. And religion and I put my to-do list and these various categories. And so I don't just categorize my to-do list randomly. I, I said it in these various sort of realms and, um, and it helps me.
[01:05:47] So anyway, those are some practices, I guess. Yeah,
[01:05:52] Eddie: no, it's exactly. Um, the kind of, I think advice that it doesn't matter what, at what stage of life you're in, it's, it's super helpful to kind of [01:06:00] reset the asthma in some ways to ensure that your, the things that you're doing every day kind of align with the priorities that you have, whether it is, you know, work, family, community, or religion.
[01:06:11] Um, and so, but thank you so much, John. I really appreciate the time and I'm sure the community will too, and we're really excited. The insights were fascinating on, on how Westpoint played into your, your life, your career. I really liked that last segment, John, and I hope that we can. You know, produce that in a way that that is valuable to, to a lot of people.
[01:06:35] I think some of the most, I mean the career stuff is really fascinating, but for me personally, I love to hear the stories, the little things that people do that allow them to do really, really big things. And I think that that for me is your, your black book is something that I really took away from
[01:06:50] John: this.
[01:06:50] So thank you, enjoy the conversation. And, um, and, and my sort of final takeaway would be, um, be involved [01:07:00] with west point. Don't just expect that, you know, the, the grads are going to take care of you. No one really owes you anything you got to give of yourself first. And, you know, I've had fabulous west point mentors, you know, starting with Randy Pace, class of 67.
[01:07:17] I mean, this man just was named distinguished grad this past year. Um, he personally, he's the biggest force multiplier. I know he, he is responsible for probably 500 kids from the greater Houston. Yeah. Going to west point because he called and introduced them. And I had no idea what it was before, you know, Randy Pace and coach Sutton called on me.
[01:07:39] So I, I owe everything to this guy. And, um, so being, being involved is really, really important. And you've got to give first in order to get any of the benefit out of our alumni organization.
[01:07:54] Eddie: Well, I think that's a great note to end on. I know that you have to catch a flight, but I really appreciate your time.[01:08:00]
[01:08:00] Um, thank you so much for being on and sharing everything that you've learned with the community. Uh, really, really appreciate it, John.
[01:08:07] John: Yeah. You're more than welcome and Eddie has been great to visit with you and, and I just wish everyone well and, um, stay safe out there. Thanks. Thanks, John. Thank you for listening to OnPoint.
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