This episode features an interview with Han Kim. Han is the Managing Director and Co-founder of Altos Ventures, a VC firm with more than $10 billion in assets under management. On this episode, Han discusses the thought process that’s guided him through notable investments like Roblox, Marco Polo, Demandbase, Coupang, Outdoorsy, and more. He shares the differences in how he works with entrepreneurs now vs. earlier in his investing career, and how West Point trained him to face challenges day by day.
“And you just have to get up every day, face the challenges, regardless of how you feel. And I think a lot of the things we do, there's all kinds of external things that happen on a day-to-day basis. And a lot of times you sort of want to close your eyes and just avoid and pretend that maybe you don't have these troubles, but it's there. So you might as well open your eyes, face those things head-on and just go through it one by one. And you know, at some point there's going to be a better day and, and I think that's something West Point has just ingrained in me. And I think we were able to go through some tough times knowing that.” — Han Kim
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Episode Timestamps:
*(2:24) - The decision behind going to West Point
*(4:10) - How Han thought about his career early on
*(6:20) - Joining P&G after Stanford Business School
*(12:30) - Co-founding and starting a fund early in your career
*(21:28) - Altos Ventures first big breakthrough
*(24:14) - Acknowledging reality
*(29:30) - Some of Altos Ventures’ investments and their investing memos
*(33:45) - The Sitrep - The Situation Report
*(38:15) - The SOP - The Standard Operating Procedure
*(43:09) - Giving Back
Links
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[00:01:45] Welcome to On Point. I'm Eddie Kang, founder of the Old Grad Club and your host for today. I'm joined by a very special guest Han Kim. Han, how are you doing this morning?
[00:01:58] Han: Great!
[00:01:59] Eddie: Well, we're super excited to have you on and kind of better understand your story from a different lens. Just to introduce you to the audience in some ways, you've had a very storied career in the private sector. You graduated from West Point. Um, I believe in 19 80,
[00:02:15] Han: 83. Is that right? You're making the 87, sorry,
[00:02:20] Eddie: 1987. That's right. Can you take us through first your decision to join west point in the military and all that?
[00:02:27] Han: Sure. You know, I, obviously I immigrated to the U S and while growing up in Korea, I had chance to experience sort of the, uh, the development of Korea and sort of the part that you. At played a, such a great role in helping the country to, uh, to get out of a potential communist threat, et cetera. And there was always sort of, um, some part of me that wanted to repay and, [00:03:00] and, you know, as we came to the states, we were going through sort of the high school years, you know, I, I wanted it.
[00:03:08] Do something through certain years of service. And I wanted to, part of that was going to west point and serve in the military. And so I, you know, but I had no idea how hard it was going to be. And so I came to west point was shocked on the first day, it was probably the longest day of my life. And somehow I, I survived those four years served in the military first.
[00:03:35] That's
[00:03:36] Eddie: awesome. And, uh, remind us again, where did you grow up in
[00:03:39] Han: the U S uh, I grew up in Chicago. That's right. That's right. Uh, inner city, Chicago. And were your parents supportive
[00:03:45] Eddie: of the decision to go to west point
[00:03:47] Han: and all that? Or? Uh, not at first, but eventually they were very supportive. Yeah. Uh, you know, I got that turned around, so they were very supportive, um, when I entered.
[00:03:59] So [00:04:00] when I thought about baby not doing it after the first day, I couldn't go back to. After all that time I put into a change there. Gotcha. Yeah,
[00:04:10] Eddie: that's super, uh, that's super interesting. And so during your years at west point, you ended up eventually graduating and then going to the Corps of engineers.
[00:04:18] Can you take us through that decision? Like what were you thinking at that point in time with your career? And did you think you were going to be in for life or did you think, you know, this is going to be some, a phase of your life. How did you go through that decision?
[00:04:28] Han: You know, at the time of graduation, I thought I would be staying for at least 10 years.
[00:04:33] I thought I would go into the core, uh, Corps of engineers. Do a good job. Maybe they would send me to grad school and maybe come back to west point as a faculty member to teach. And, and that was sort of the career I was envisioning. And maybe after 20 years or so, I would end up as, um, some analyst examining, you know, maybe the, uh, international security related issues.[00:05:00]
[00:05:00] And I had my life planned out. And, but somewhere along the way, I realized I didn't like certain aspects of the army and, you know, it was, it was better for me to come out and, and take on the challenges in the civilian sector. And, um, you know, thinking back, I'm guessing, you know, when the Berlin wall came down, it was bit of a let down.
[00:05:26] It's like, oh, the, the biggest enemy we thought there was in front of us, you know, basically. And although there was a golf. In between it was, you know, such a dominating victory and we thought, you know, maybe the majority of the conflict went away and I had to look for some other things.
[00:05:48] Eddie: Yeah. That's um, that's super interesting.
[00:05:50] Especially as we have probably some of our younger listeners going through perhaps a similar situation right now, you know, I graduated in oh eight and everybody. [00:06:00] New, you know, Iraq was still going on. Afghanistan was still going on, but with this kind of withdrawal, I imagine a lot what a lot of people were preparing for there perhaps.
[00:06:10] I wouldn't say let down by it, but, you know, it's, it's interesting thinking that they're probably not going to go fight in the war that they thought was going to keep going on. So, and so you, you went out and you went straight to P uh, Proctor and gamble. You know, that story seems to be more, more and more popular as I talked to that's that are, you know, graduated in the eighties or something like that.
[00:06:30] Um, can you take us through that decision making, perhaps why that was such a common story?
[00:06:35] Han: P and G was more of a, it was a summer day. And, you know, I came to business school without really understanding what's out there in the private sector. You know, going through business school, you know, you get inundated with lots of company, information, sessions, interviews, et cetera.
[00:06:54] So I, you know, a bunch of my friends were interviewing for like banking [00:07:00] and you know, some of the banks really love the veterans just because the, I think typical veterans have more of a can-do attitude. You could stay up late at nights, without complaints, et cetera. So, um, I think I interviewed a bunch, you know, never got to the second round in most, most places just because I think, you know, I would have rejected me too, because I really didn't know, uh, what they did.
[00:07:28] I didn't spend much time looking into what the life was, how I fit, et cetera. I just went in there thinking, Hey, I'm a good guy. I could do what. You know, tasks they put in front of me. So if they should hire me, I went in with more of that attitude. And obviously I got rejected after all those rejections, I thought I would, you know, although people tell you, you know, we've never had a single student not have a job offer.
[00:07:57] I thought I would break that. Right. [00:08:00] At Stanford and this is it. And they keep telling me how there's plenty of jobs. You're going to have it. And I'm thinking, you know, I could be that one exception in, in the history of, of business school, then Procter and gamble came along. And the guy who headed up all the, uh, HR interviews was a former west point guy.
[00:08:22] I can't remember his name, but yeah. And then he took me through and P and G they give you all these leadership questions and whatnot, and, and those were very easy. Um, you know, you take some aptitude tests and, you know, so they gave me an offer. So it was like the only offer. So I, I took it and I went to the, I didn't work there.
[00:08:45] And then I realized why I left the military, which was, I think when I. Yeah, I did two years in Korea and three years back at Fort Leonard wood, Missouri. Those two years [00:09:00] was really fun. And, you know, as a platoon leader, executive officer, but we had a lot of latitude. We set up our own training schedule and we spent a lot of time out on the field doing.
[00:09:13] And so we were making decisions on the fly. As a platoon leader and we were just doing a lot of things. And I think I love that dynamism, but when I came back to Fort Leonard wood, if you didn't have whatever you were going to do, request submitted six weeks in advance, you weren't going to do anything.
[00:09:35] And PNG was a bit like that. It's a very methodical organization, super smart people. But everything had to be planned out. You know, it was, everything was very carefully orchestrated and you had to make sure you got consensus, et cetera. And then I said, you know, it's probably, while I love the experience.
[00:09:58] And I felt like [00:10:00] I was back at Fort Leonard wood, this isn't something I wanted to really sign up. And I'm thankful. And I think because of that, I got a job at Booz Allen, you know, after graduating
[00:10:14] Eddie: Booz Allen seems to hire a lot of milk, like former military bats. But you worked in my understanding is a grocery retail and a wholesale company, as well as an entertainment company.
[00:10:25] Is that right? Which is very far different from the government.
[00:10:29] Han: Yeah. So Booz Allen at that time was divided into various industry groups and the worldwide partner for what they call MIG marketing intensive. Was in the San Francisco office. So it was a very popular and you joined that particular group.
[00:10:48] And so you interviewed for that group. And while I really had a lot of interest in doing that, I thought I wasn't no way they would hire me. That was my thought. And so I didn't even [00:11:00] bother interviewing. And then one day they called me and said they would love to enter. And so I went in there, then I was thinking, oh shoot, maybe it's my P and G experience that they really like.
[00:11:11] I went in and, you know, we, I spent bunch of time with the group and, you know, to my surprise, they, uh, gave me an offer. So I was like, wow, I must be doing great. And then it's funny because the first day I was put into a job with a large grocery wholesaler. And I think around that time, Booz Allen was.
[00:11:34] Trying to win a very big consulting engagement and the person on the client side, the person that was going to decide was the former army general. And so they thought Booz Allen thought, Hey, I would hit off pretty well with the former army general. And that was probably the driving factor behind them.
[00:11:58] Hiring. [00:12:00] Rather than my capability. So that was a case where my military background actually helped me to get a great. And basically, you know, that's kind of how I ended up at a booth. All right. So,
[00:12:15] Eddie: hon, it's an interesting story. You, you get hired because of your background, obviously likely because you're super talented as well.
[00:12:23] So you're at P and G, then you're at Booz Allen Hamilton. Both stints are like a couple, you know, PNG was just a short time and Booz Allen hill Hamilton, probably not, not quite two years. And then all of a sudden you go out and you co-found, uh, Aldo. How with limited exposure, I imagine at that time to venture capital and, you know, you can make the argument that, that takes a lot of confidence, risk-taking appetite, but can you take us through the.
[00:12:50] Process in being in VC, like the, you know, I've been in the industry now for like five or six years now. And the idea of just going out and starting your own fund, um, that's, it's something [00:13:00] that it's just extremely impressive that you did at that stage.
[00:13:03] Han: You know, it's, it's actually not that impressive because, uh, but it wasn't like we went out and decided to raise a new fund.
[00:13:14] So what happened was one of the, uh, professional. At Stanford business school with whom I took, I think two classes from, he was working with a, a large conglomerate in Korea and they were interested in finding various opportunities and investing in those opportunities in Silicon valley. And the professor was helping, uh, that conglomerate in Korea.
[00:13:39] And then professor at some point it's like, Hey, I have a full-time job teaching. And so. Yeah, maybe I would just introduce a Korean-American that, you know, I had at business school as a student to conglomerate owner. And so I basically, uh, the professor called me one day and say, Hey, would you [00:14:00] be interested in, in doing venture investments?
[00:14:03] And I will help you with. Then I basically said, you know, because I went to Stanford, I knew what venture capitalists did, but I thought it was something, you know, you have to be old experience that said draw to be doing it. And at that time I didn't really have a passion or love for investing nor did I have it for like pure technology.
[00:14:26] So I said, no, I'm, you know, I don't think it's for. But let me introduce you to a couple of great Americans from my class that might have interest or that have had some relevant experience. So, you know, I did that and you know, they came back or the professor came back and said, Hey, well, I don't three of them.
[00:14:49] You know, partner for my group, you know, actually, you know, do a fund rather than doing, uh, like a project by project and just, you know, start with a small fund [00:15:00] and see how it goes. And so, and three of us, we, we talked about. At first, we weren't that enthused. So we wanted to meet the backer potential backer.
[00:15:08] So we met and, you know, eventually things came together and we decided to do it. So that conversation took, you know, about a year for us to decide. We got started in spring of 96 and then like couple of years later, the conglomerate got into a, uh, they were hit with Asian financial crisis, so they couldn't fund it.
[00:15:31] So. That was our first sort of, uh, test of I will to keep going. I think at that time, You know, the folks at Silicon valley bank and they were super helpful, gave us like, I mean, it's unbelievable 10 or $15 million line of credit for us to continue investing. Then we got some secondary investors to come in and take over a bunch of commitments.
[00:15:55] Uh, and we had a bunch of help along the way. Other professors, [00:16:00] you know, friends and then, and we thought we were doing well, then, then the. The internet bubble burst.
[00:16:10] Eddie: That's probably like what three that's like four years into after starting it. Wasn't what you're saying. It's not, it hasn't been a straight shot, you know, up into the right.
[00:16:19] W
[00:16:20] Han: oh, definitely. So in 2001, nine 11 happened, that's probably our lowest, because we knew we had to go, we need a, another farm to keep going, because we didn't have any money, but you know, our track record. You know, basically it was a negative return track record. So, you know, we have to go raise a, you know, we're meeting institutional investors for the first time and they're looking at us and going, okay, you got three Asian guys now at that time, four Asian guys with a negative track record.
[00:16:57] And my R or the tagline was, [00:17:00] we lost less money than some other big guys. Oh my gosh. You know, and I, and so we, that was our first, first time out there raising money from the institutional investors who said that's basically. Yeah. I mean, it took a long time. I mean, it took like over three years, I'm curious who
[00:17:20] Eddie: took that swing?
[00:17:21] At some point, if somebody said yes, like who was it?
[00:17:24] Han: So the, the first institutional investor to ever commit other than few friends and, you know, sort of the, a few friends that made money during the internet bubble was a firm called, uh, Fairview capital and they were formed and, yeah, there's look it up.
[00:17:45] There's a guy named Larry. African-American dare thesis was, Hey, there are a lot of people who don't look like a typical venture capitalist. [00:18:00] I think they deserve to be funded if, you know, although they don't look like one and you know, I think he meant it's like, there's a lot of minority managers out there.
[00:18:13] The problem. Could do just as a, have a good job in investments. And that was their thesis in terms of forming. That's why the name of the firm is called fair view. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So, so, you know, they took a chance on us, although, you know, so they, at that time they committed 5 million that, you know, 5 million was a big money for us.
[00:18:38] And, you know, although after they committed, then it took on other urinate. Or two years, nearly two years to get to the first close.
[00:18:47] Eddie: Gotcha. I have to learn more about Fairview. I'm going to do some research on them after, but it's incredible because it sounds like they were, you know, 30 years ahead of their time perhaps now, 25 years.
[00:18:58] Oh yeah. Oh yeah. [00:19:00] Diversity inclusion in emerging managers and managers is probably one of the hotter topics of, of the day. Um, and like, it sounds like they took a swing on you for that reason over two
[00:19:10] Han: decades ago. Yeah. They, they took us. And then we couldn't get further commitments. So they waited like, I dunno, a year and a half or so before the first close.
[00:19:22] So just imagine, you know, just leaving your commitment and after you committed 5 million in like in their eyes, it's like, man, these guys, they can't even get to a $25 million first. Right. And, but that's basically what happened. And, you know, then it was, it took a university endowment, one of the, uh, endowments and they decided to make a, you know, much bigger commitment.
[00:19:52] And so they committed 15 million. And so we had another 5 million of various individuals and that's how we [00:20:00] got to our first $25 million club. And then we added a bunch of more investors on top of that to eventually get to $68 million. And that's our first institutional fund from the outside investors.
[00:20:16] Eddie: And what a story? Um, that's, life-changing I'm sure for all everybody involved. Yeah.
[00:20:21] Han: So, you know, yeah. Every person or every entity that invested, we are forever. I mean, it's
[00:20:29] Eddie: easy to look from today's standpoint and just think, oh, Altos, what a, what a story they invested, you know, multiple times into roadblocks and coupons and all these different great companies.
[00:20:40] But, you know, it's also fascinating to see that even like five years into starting Altos, there was a lot of uncertainty. There was a lot of perhaps fear. Um, but you kept going and I'm sure at that point, did you have a family and all that kind of stuff? Like, oh, okay. So
[00:20:56] Han: yeah, I imagine you're well, yeah, I was married right out of way.[00:21:00]
[00:21:00] And then, and then when I came to business school, I, you know, our kid was one year old. What was your
[00:21:07] Eddie: at the time? Was she like, well, what is this VC thing? And does Han really have a job? Like, is what's going on? Exactly. Like
[00:21:13] Han: I am. Um, I mean, um, you know, we, I, I got on here.
[00:21:23] Yeah. Uh, oh, let's talk about some,
[00:21:25] Eddie: some more of the exciting and the positive and the joy
[00:21:28] Han: things.
[00:21:28] Eddie: So you started Altos, perhaps a rough start. The timing of it is interesting, right? You started in 96 and then you, the, the, all of these different things happened, but what was the big first break where you were like, wow, this is really actually working, like where you started to feel really optimistic,
[00:21:45] Han: you know?
[00:21:47] Know, going back. We, when we got started, we thought we were really good. You know, we were, you know, I, we didn't know any better. Um, you know, the [00:22:00] 96 was a great sort of time to be investing. Right. And, and I think if we knew what we were doing, Um, you know, we probably would have done really well because we were a lot of people, they made a, you know, they created some interesting companies, you know, made fortunes back then.
[00:22:19] And the way, you know, sort of, we got into it was we, we thought. You know, basically at that time, what happened was, it was a bunch of eyeballs. If, if you created as a lot of new internet companies, you created eyeballs traffic, the company got valued very highly. And so we went looking for some interesting ideas we wanted to do.
[00:22:44] Because, you know, a lot of the, uh, larger VC funds, you know, they weren't going to do us any favors. So we thought we had to go find some interesting companies and have them come in. So our mission in life was let's find some great companies or [00:23:00] founders in which the large VC traditional VC funds would take into.
[00:23:06] So that's what we did. And a lot of them, you know, once we get interesting ideas and some halfway decent founders, the lot of the VC funds at that time, the formula was you come in and for the most part, you replaced the founders with professional CEOs and management team that they have known for a long time.
[00:23:29] And so what happened was we were. I think we basically said we're very good at working with the founders and convincing them that they should step down. So, you know, the ancestor of a lot of energy gets taken from the VCs and the board members when you have to replace the CEO, right. Or the founding CEO.
[00:23:53] And, and we thought we could relate to the founder as well. We can help them to say. I'm going to step down, let's get somebody [00:24:00] new in and we weren't good at it. We were good at that. And then we get the professional management team in. We got some good VCs coming in and, and our valuation of the companies went up, you know, the bankers wanted to take these companies public.
[00:24:14] So we thought we had that formula down and we thought we were really good until it came crashing down. And we realized we weren't building companies at all. We were building something that investors right. We weren't doing anything fundamentally. Like we weren't building anything really valuable. So basically that said, you know, we had a long talk with bunch of our advisers, including Jack McDonald who taught, uh, investments at Stanford.
[00:24:47] And basically, you know, we, we acknowledged it and his, his words were, Hey, um, I'm glad you guys are acknowledging it because acknowledgement of. Where you are [00:25:00] basically that you suck is a first step towards getting better. And I actually take that lesson to heart, you know, since that conversation. And we said, Hey, let's just admit we didn't do a good job.
[00:25:15] And let's, you know, figure out a better way. Do this, let's forget about what the market wants or investors want. Let's invest in people. We really like, and let's just help them to become the best company. And so for the most part, we said, you know, try to replace, you know, we looked at the track record of having replaced founders, getting professional management teams in.
[00:25:40] They weren't any better, the success rate didn't go up. So we said, you know, Y try it. If the success rate isn't any better. So we said, Hey, you know, first of all, we wanted to invest in founders that have the potential to take the company for a much longer time period. And it's [00:26:00] sort of our job to protect them and help them to grow rather than, you know, getting them out of the position and placing the, uh, the new CEO said, and second thing was, Hey, we wanted to make sure we understand.
[00:26:15] Why the companies raise money, how they spend the money and let's just make sure we're always in agreement, et cetera, not to be heavy handed, but it's kind of like, don't raise a lot of money at high valuation because you could, it's just, let's just, you know, become more of a old-fashioned way. Hey, do we have customers or products loved by customers?
[00:26:39] How do we get more of those customers? Let's just focus on those kinds of issues. So with that rationale, we went out and, you know, raise the oh five font. And so we want it to be proven right with this style. And then what happened was there was an oil crash, right? So these companies weren't growing [00:27:00] well, and then the Lehman crisis happened and all these companies that were growing well, I mean, it was kind of like, oh my God, I can't believe there is another letdown because all these companies are now set back for another three years.
[00:27:13] Right. Cause you grow for three years and then once you get hit with something like. Then we were like, holy cow. But luckily, you know, right before that, we had raised our second fund of like 88 million or 86 million. And so we, we just kept going and we're thinking that I don't know, you know, when we're going to be proven.
[00:27:39] Right. But we just have to believe in ourselves. Right. And I think around 2012, it. We thought bunch of companies were, uh, going in the right direction, but we didn't really have an external evidence that other investors could see and say, Hey, they're [00:28:00] doing a pretty decent job by so and so, you know, to third party people, the, the jury wasn't.
[00:28:09] And, and around that time we thought, Hey, Korea might be an interesting opportunity for, you know, a whole bunch of reasons why we thought Korea was an interesting opportunity. And we started a separate Korea fund in there and things sort of, it Korea took off a little quicker just because we noticed the, sort of the trend into the mobile environment literally.
[00:28:34] And we were a little bit more aggressive on investing. Heavily into those companies. And around that, you know, I think 2000, and after we got started on the Korea fund and we started feeling very bullish, even on our us portfolio as well. And we said, Hey, let's just stay patient. I think we're going to be proven, right?
[00:28:59] Let's stay very [00:29:00] patient. Let's keep doing it. And some of the early investors by then I think caught up and, and really. Started to support us in a big way. And so I think it's probably around 2015, so it's really 10 years after we got started. We, we started to have confidence from our early investors. So I think it took about a decade for our early investors to finally feel like, okay, we feel really good about L.
[00:29:35] Well,
[00:29:36] Eddie: they always say VC is a long game and well, I mean, it seems like. The story played itself out over time. Can you maybe talk a little bit specifically about some of the bigger wins in the portfolio and obviously like, it was a huge year, last year for, for roadblocks and coupon, but how did, like, what were you thinking?
[00:29:55] Where did those investments stand out at the time that you made the investments? Or was [00:30:00] this something that over time became like bigger than you perhaps would have been. I,
[00:30:04] Han: I think all of the, uh, companies, the outcome was much bigger. We were, we had a company go public this week in Crafton, in Korea. Um, you know, one of my partners shared my investment memo, which is usually very short.
[00:30:22] It's like a, you know, a couple of paragraphs. And I think I predicted like it'll become a $300 million company and we had a wild debate, whether. It could become a $300 million company. I think I predicted like $30 million in net income, 10 X, P E multiple, and $300 million market cap. And we just, the other day we share that memo around and we had a chuckle.
[00:30:50] And so literally we never thought we, you know, any company, it would be like a billion dollar plus type of a level. You know, we just assume, Hey, it's going to be. [00:31:00] You know, these companies that at some point they're going to start throwing off cash flow and we're just do a very conservative cashflow, multiple, and that's what the valuation will be.
[00:31:12] And, you know, we sort of modeled everything around that. Uh, and then, you know, so a lot of we, we never, I think our style is so that we never expect a huge outcome in any company. When we invest, we actually assume that we'll be wrong. All probability wise would be wrong and the company, it won't be a success, you know, sort of along the way.
[00:31:43] We figure out which company will be more successful and that just takes time. And once the company, once we know which companies will be successful, you know, we try to invest a little bit more money and hopefully by then our judgment has [00:32:00] improved. And so it's not, it's not really rocket science. I don't think, you know, we're any smarter, but once you have a lot more interactions with the company, Founders, et cetera, then, you know, we figured we could make a better investment decision.
[00:32:18] Eddie: Yeah. That's, that's um, that's a fascinating strategy. And kind of like with roadblocks, my understanding is you invested like multiple times into the company to a point where you, you, you actually, how many, how many dollars did you end up investing in
[00:32:31] Han: roadblocks? I don't know exactly. It's in the few hundred.
[00:32:35] Multi on your million dollars, which is
[00:32:38] Eddie: just, it's just a lot of capital. Um, and so it sounds like, so you make a lot of investments and then you kind of really double down into the companies that you feel confident about. Um, and that's allowed you to, to, you know, ultimately, you know, be where you are
[00:32:50] Han: today.
[00:32:51] Yeah, but we, we, um, you know, we don't expect it. We, I think we expect those things to be very rare. [00:33:00] So it's not like, you know, we're, we're searching for that all the time. We just let it come to. Right. And I think if you work with, uh, you know, good companies, good entrepreneurs, and you know, over long time they gain trust in you, we gain more trust in them.
[00:33:18] And if it's a, if, if it's that type of a relationship that they would like us to invest more, we would like to invest more than I think, you know, it happens, but it's, we don't force money into any company. It has to be, um, in a mutual, uh, thing. That's
[00:33:39] Eddie: so cool onto the next segment, the sit rep or the situation report in this segment, we'll dive into what our guest is focused on today and how their vision is transforming the future of industry in society.
[00:33:52] It sounds like you are continuing to be focused on Korea when it comes to an investment environment. Um, and [00:34:00] can you tell us about the next phase of, of where Altos is headed? I don't know if. Going to be more aggressive than you have been in the past, but, you know, VC is all the rage, perhaps these days.
[00:34:09] Um, what's next for autism?
[00:34:12] Han: You know, we keep doing pretty much the same thing. Uh, it's not like we have a brand new strategy. You know, we, we have, we have a team in the U S we have a team in Korea. We added a company out in Mexico, so it's, it's a new region. So we added a second company out in Mexico. So it's, you know, now we're looking little bit and we've always had companies from Eastern Europe, so we, yeah.
[00:34:39] So we look for opportunities that make sense that come to us. It wasn't like we were, you know, out there trolling, Mexico as a great region. And out in Asia, we invested in a second company out in Japan. We, we did a first investment out in Indonesia. [00:35:00] At the same time. It's not like we're out there looking for opportunities there and, but it does come in.
[00:35:08] So I think we're probably, we're going to continue to look at opportunities that are interesting, great founders, you know, in the U S we typically look for opportunities in cities where, you know, there is sort of less number of VCs going. Great founders, you know, that have the right mentality and in growing the companies in the right way.
[00:35:32] And we're continuing to invest heavily into Korea as well, because we think now much more experienced entrepreneurs, you know, maybe that have gone through one or two cycles of building a company selling that's. And so now we see the development of companies getting faster. So, so we continue to invest heavily there, but you know, our fund sizes, you know, [00:36:00] it's not like we, you know, um,
[00:36:03] Eddie: like 10 X, the fund size.
[00:36:04] Yeah. It's like what you probably could at this point. The amount of money getting
[00:36:09] Han: raised out there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, we don't, we either. Yeah, but that's, that's not something, you know, we're, we're interested in, you know, we're not interested in creating great Altos ventures where, you know, I think we're all aligned that Altos in there.
[00:36:26] We're more interested in making sure the companies we invest in become great companies. And if they become great companies and if the entrepreneurs we invest in, you know, some of them won't be great companies, but the founders that we work with, you know, they're going to end up doing well and creating whatever company, the best company that they could build.
[00:36:51] And if we could help them to achieve that, I think we'll be super happy. And so that's all we're interested in [00:37:00] and generating returns and what. I think it keeps us in the business, which is the most fun thing for us is working with the founders. Right. And sometimes struggling, you know, because the market isn't really happening, figuring out how to pivot.
[00:37:21] You know, sometimes we go through some tough times with the founders together, but that's all sort of a bit of a exhilarating for them. You know, we, we do what we need to do for the investment side, so we could keep doing, uh, our work with the founders. Yeah. Yeah. That's a, that's kind of how we think about it.
[00:37:43] Right.
[00:37:44] Eddie: Definitely. Um, it's definitely one of the, more like the, probably the most rewarding part of, of the job from my perspective as well. So, you know, we we've gone through, in some ways, you know, a really quick overview of, of a really long and storied career, both [00:38:00] in the military and then also in the private sector.
[00:38:03] And, you know, Altos has done a fantastic job. Let's get into our next segment, the SOP or standard operating procedure in this segment, we're going to talk about the personal routines, habits and words to live by that have been instrumental to our guests success. And it's really like the daily things that you do, whether it's like you make a shake in the morning or you go for a run or whatever it is.
[00:38:24] But like, are there any interesting quirks that are unique to Hahn or maybe not unique to you, but you just do very consistently. That's helped you kind of along
[00:38:32] Han: the way. So, oh, I, you know, I always go back to, you know, when I, when I'm in what I'm doing for work, I have to think some of the things, all the stuff that we went through at Western.
[00:38:45] I think as maybe something I have to think every day, which is at west point, I think every, you sort of learn every day is a new day. You know, it's like the sun's going to come up [00:39:00] regardless of whether or not you want to get up from the bed or not get up from the bed. And you know, whether or not you get hurt during your boxing match.
[00:39:11] You know, you're still gonna have to take the calculus exam. The papers social paper will still be, do like, so the world, you just learn that world doesn't revolve around you and you just have to get up every day, face the challenges regardless of how you feel. And, and, and I think a lot of the, um, things we do.
[00:39:38] I think, yeah, there's all kinds of external things that happen on a day to day basis. And a lot of times you sort of want to close your eyes and just avoid and pretend. Maybe you don't have these troubles, but you know, it's there. So you might as well open your eyes face those. [00:40:00] Head-on and just go through it one by one.
[00:40:02] And, you know, at some point there's going to be a better day and, and I think that's something west point has just ingrained in me. And I think we were able to go through some tough times, uh, knowing that, Hey, after all that, you know, maybe after like bunch of rainy days, the sun's going to come up. One of these.
[00:40:24] And so I think, I think that's something that I try to also instill in our entrepreneurs when we fund, because they go through some dark times. So, and that's something I try to encourage them into thinking. And the other thing is what, you know, I think, uh, this short episode with Jack McDonald, you know, basically, Hey, let's just always ground yourself on reality.
[00:40:51] Let's just make sure. We all know, uh, where we are, let's admit the reality. So we have a [00:41:00] favorite thing. It is what it is. Right. And so once you sort of understand that reality, then you could do something about it. Right? So we typically, when we work with the CEOs and founder, you know, sometimes you don't want to admit the reality because, you know, it's, it's, sometimes it's not.
[00:41:20] But once you say things aren't going well, then you could finally start doing something about it. So, you know, we, we, we get worried when the CEOs don't admit certain realities or, you know, that's something we really push hard on. And I think those are, you know, the couple of things that I try to. Practice as well.
[00:41:46] And sort of on the lighter note, you know, working with the younger partners, you know, one habit I am developing sometimes I still don't, you know, it's like, instead of asking a [00:42:00] question, Hey, what's this, like, I tried to Google now for. Before asking the dumb question, you know, and I think people in my generation were like, Hey, do you know so-and-so?
[00:42:10] Hmm. Let's see, where do I know this person from? You know, or, you know, what, what, you know, what kind of company is this? Have you heard about this company with just the kind of stuff that we. Ask one another, but the younger partners are like, Ooh, they just look up and the company, they just look up and it's all there on Google.
[00:42:31] So I'm like, okay. I feel like an idiot. So whenever any topic, any technology, rather than, you know, figuring out who to ask I look up now. Right. And I think it's, um, you know, it's a simple. Habit of, you know, not being lazy. Right. That's awesome.
[00:42:55] Eddie: Um, it's fascinating to hear how the progression of these different phases of the [00:43:00] industry, as well as like you, you're the company that you, the firm that you've built.
[00:43:04] Um, it's, it's a. It's really fascinating. Um, so lastly, are there any last, like kind of departing words that you'd give to younger grads or maybe even cadets or people that are scaling in their career? Like if you could kind of give, you know, say one thing that would really, you think defines the, the impact that you think you can have on, on
[00:43:24] Han: them, what would it be thinking back?
[00:43:27] I, I think one, a couple of things. One is when a certain, I think the life gives you. Uh, chance at various points. And, and if you think you're, I, I wouldn't like calculate too much. And if you think that's something you'd love to spend time on, I would just, just grab that chance and go all in and don't try to, you know, optimize for one way or another.
[00:43:54] You just got to go all in and you got to go for it. [00:44:00] And secondly, Um, you know, one thing I have observed is if you have some early success, you know, don't, don't believe it's all you, it's never all, some, you know, an individual it's, you know, sometimes it's all luck, but a lot of times it's because of a bunch of people around.
[00:44:23] And, you know, we tell the founders of companies, Hey, the company did great. You know, make sure everybody in the company get some credit for it. But also at the same time, you know, the company wouldn't exist. If the society then exists. So you always have to think that, you know, the society and, you know, bunch of people around you.
[00:44:47] Enabling something like this as well. So, you know, don't ever forget you're, you know, you're part of, you're a citizen, uh, you know, something that's greater than the company as well. So we, you know, that's [00:45:00] something we just have to keep reminding. As, you know, you actually ended up getting more and more success as well.
[00:45:09] Eddie: Yeah. That's, um, that's very thoughtful and appreciated something that I think we all kind of need to remember.
[00:45:15] Han: Yeah. I mean, we wouldn't exist if, you know, in, in peace, if you know some of our, um, some of the people that we work with in the military, if you know, you know, somebody is out there freezing their buns off, right.
[00:45:30] Because they're on patrol. Uh, they haven't slept probably a hundred. You know, somebody is out there. Right. And without those people, we wouldn't be enjoying, you know, life in the business as well. Right. So, you know, just, um, you know, you always have to be thankful
[00:45:49] Eddie: for sure, for sure. Uh, well, hon, I feel like I could learn from you for, for the decades to come.
[00:45:53] And I. Appreciate the time, but I think I've already taken up more than my share of it. Uh, really [00:46:00] appreciate, really appreciate it. Thank you so much. And uh, I wish you the best of luck in everything that you have going on with business and family and all that.
[00:46:07] Han: All right. Thank you. Thank you for listening to OnPoint.
[00:46:12] Please take a moment to rate and review the show. Wherever you're listening. They really helped. Also subscribe to our newsletter@oldgradclub.com and follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn at old grad club. We'll see you in the next episode.