This episode features an interview with Marene Allison, Chief Information Security Officer for Johnson and Johnson. Prior to joining J&J, Marene was CISO and VP for Medco, the largest pharmacy benefit manager in the United States, and Head of Global Security at Avaya, where she worked on securing the World Cup network in Korea and Japan in 2002. Marene graduated from West Point in 1980, part of the first class to include women, and later served in the Military Police. She has been on the Defense Advisory Committee on Women in the Services appointed by the Secretary of Defense and the Overseas Security Advisory Committee appointed by the Secretary of State. On this episode, Marene shares what it meant to graduate as part of West Point's first class to include women, the scope and magnitude of being the CISO for J&J during the production of the Covid-19 vaccine, and how she tackles challenges with an "I can do anything" mindset.
“We raised our hand and said, ‘I will defend against all enemies foreign and domestic,’ and I do that every morning. I don't raise my hand, but I go out there for the mission. And J&J, being a fortune 50 company, is not only a target because it's healthcare and because it's created a vaccine, but it's also part of the financial institution and is seen as a symbol of the United States. So [it’s paramount] to make sure that our data is safe and our systems are safe so that the people who create the vaccines, who create the drugs, who create the bandaids that are used around the world every single day— they're free operate without being attacked or having to worry about their systems or data.” — Marene Allison
-------
Episode Timestamps:
*(3:10) - Where Marene grew up and how she heard about West Point
*(3:40) - What it meant to be the first class of women at West Point
*(7:10) - Did Marene think she’d ever become CISO of J&J?
*(8:40) - How Marene thought about her early career
*(10:30) - How to prove people wrong
*(11:30) - Joining the FBI
*(19:27) - Joining Johnson & Johnson
*(21:45) - The scope and magnitude of being the CISO for J&J
*(26:50) - SOP - Standard Operating Procedure
*(29:50) - The trust needed to be CISO of J&J
*(33:24) - The Situation Report
*(33:50) - Securing the J&J Vaccine
*(36:05) - How the first shared interest group West Point Women came to be
*(41:20) - What impact Marene wants West Point Women to accomplish
*(46:50) - Giving Back
Links
Connect with Marene on LinkedIn
Connect with Old Grad Club on LinkedIn
[00:02:39] Thank you so much for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. I know you're super busy. And so where are you, where are you dialing
[00:02:47] Marene: in from today? Having me Eddie. I love this idea of, uh, the, the younger grads and the older grads kind of, uh, coming together over technology.
[00:02:57] Uh, I'm calling in from Ponti V drift, [00:03:00] Florida.
[00:03:00] Eddie: Gotcha. That's awesome. Your story has so many different areas that we want to learn about, but maybe if you could take us back from the beginning, where did you grow up and how did you find yourself in the really glass ceiling breaking class of 1980, the first class of west point women there was.
[00:03:16] So
[00:03:16] Marene: I grew up in Southeastern Massachusetts. I sort of channel Abigail Adams. I was class president at silver lake regional high school down in Kingston, Massachusetts. I needed to get out of Massachusetts. I needed to go to college. My dad had been laid off in the mid seventies, seventies, 1970s. And so I was looking, could I get an ROTC scholar?
[00:03:41] But you have to remember, um, in the seventies, again, with the drawdown of Vietnam and the fact that women were kind of new finding an ROTC scholarship, the academies weren't open to women. I think it was October of 1975. My [00:04:00] dad saw an article in the globe, Boston globe, and it said, you know, the academies were opened up to women.
[00:04:06] So I applied to.
[00:04:08] Eddie: The air force academy. Yes,
[00:04:12] Marene: I know. I know. But, um, Senator Kennedy didn't give me his nomination to west, uh, to air force academy and Margaret Hackler decided instead of the air force academy, she wanted me to be her nominee to, uh, west point. And so sight on scene July 7th, 1976, I showed up at
[00:04:34] Eddie: west point.
[00:04:34] Did you know how big. I was just thinking about the academy right now. And I know that you do, you're super involved with west point EOG and the founder of west point women, which for all our listeners is the shared interest group for west point women. Um, but you know, at the time there was nothing like it, right.
[00:04:53] They had to probably change all these different rules. How, how, uh, how interesting was it when you were showing up maybe on [00:05:00] our day or whatever it was on all the adjustments and all of the. I'm sure there was like forms of discrimination towards you all being there.
[00:05:08] Marene: Yeah. You know, and, and we didn't call it that at the time.
[00:05:11] And as I look on it today and I look back, it was a huge deal. And my class ultimately was going to be changing a lot of the social norms at west point. And I'll talk a little bit about that in a moment, but it sort of felt like they really weren't ready for. There are, there were bathrooms that still had urinals in them and some of them still have them even today after all these years women's bathrooms
[00:05:39] Eddie: with urinals.
[00:05:40] Oh, absolutely.
[00:05:42] Marene: Um, yeah. And uh, literally one day we'd been a men's room and now it was a woman's room, especially in the barracks areas. Um, the uniforms was, we're definitely another area. The class of 80 and 81, the women were not issued [00:06:00] full dress coats that had tails. So they said there's a piece of our anatomy that could be larger than men's pieces, the same anatomy.
[00:06:10] So they would not put tails on it. So there wouldn't be a bump in the back and which, which was almost laughable. Uh, when you look back and think about it, they never thought we were going to be. Because who was at the back and at a, you know, a backside with a bump is probably a lot better than a backside with half of them, white and half of them with a full dress coat.
[00:06:35] They changed that. But there were so many of these things that it was kind of a, it was an agile approach to integration and some things just hadn't been thought through, through that.
[00:06:48] Eddie: Gotcha. Yeah. I mean, I, so I'm an oh eight grad and I'm sure that women went through like difficulties during our time.
[00:06:55] Like, I'm sure it's in comparable to what you all went through. Um, and [00:07:00] so taking it back home holistically, you obviously you're. The CSO at one of the largest companies in the world, uh, with probably one of the most challenging missions in the world of right now of, of vaccinating the world. But when you were, uh, when you were a cadet, did you ever think that you would be, you know, the chief information security officer at a fortune 50 company,
[00:07:21] Marene: the internet didn't even exist?
[00:07:23] That's wild. Yeah. So I couldn't even conceive of it. It was something and I like, there's a large amount of cadets one day at a time. All the way to graduation day and then we'll think about it later. But yeah, it, it really, it wasn't something I could think of. My class was the first ones that were introduced to electrical engineering.
[00:07:45] This is before computer science. I mean, we didn't have PCs and we didn't have mobile phones. So, you know, we did, we were past the stone tablets and the dinosaurs had left the plane, but we still, we still were not in that age [00:08:00] that you saw in 2000.
[00:08:02] Eddie: That's right. And so did you end up majoring in electrical engineering or what was your major?
[00:08:06] Uh,
[00:08:06] Marene: we didn't have majors. We had concentrations. So every cadet that graduated, we had so much engineering and math and science. We have literally Coda of any other school. Uh, we would have had probably one or two degrees in some type of engineering or science or math, but at the time it was just a concentration.
[00:08:27] So my, my engineering concentration was. Translates to any.
[00:08:34] Eddie: Yeah, that was probably the best you could have done at that point when it comes to preparing yourself for what you do now. Um, and so you graduated in 80, um, you branch, military police, right. Um, can you take us through that decision in, in your time, in the military, what, where your mind was and what you were kind of really thinking your goals were going to be in your private sector, you know, or your, your military career?
[00:08:56] Marene: So part of the problem at the time edit was a lot of the [00:09:00] branches were not going to be open to women. And so I wanted a branch where whatever I did in that branch, I could have equal performance to a male peer because I wanted to be promoted. And so when I looked at it, uh, I chose military police because that was one of the few branches.
[00:09:21] And I had had a cadet troop leader. Experience over in Berlin, Germany before the war, when the wall went down. And so I was able to get that military police platoon time in Berlin. And I said, this is me. I got this, I want this. And so I got the last lot in electric or in military police and was branch military.
[00:09:46] Eddie: That's awesome. That's awesome. I spent some time in a military police unit in Korea. Um, it's the 94th MP battalion. It was a great unit. And, uh, there's definitely a lot of traditions in that branch that are special and unique to the military police. [00:10:00] Can you tell us a little bit about your, your army time?
[00:10:01] Cause you, it sounds like you always had not necessarily something to prove, but you know, the world wasn't necessarily, you know, working in your favor at the time, but. Throughout your time at west point and in really forging a path there in the military career and the now in the private sector, you have crushed any, any ceilings or walls or anything in that regard.
[00:10:24] Did you always have that kind of energy that you really kind of wanted to prove people wrong or really Excel in some
[00:10:30] Marene: way? I don't go in trying to prove anything. I try to accomplish the mission. I love the mission. And with the military police, it was pretty much the same way. There were people who put constructs around what I should do and what I shouldn't do, but those were more other people's ideas about me versus me.
[00:10:52] I I've always known I could do it. And so, uh, uh, did the military police loved it? Fort hood, Texas. [00:11:00] Um, yeah, it's a big place and it had a big MP mission. Just loved it. And, uh, you know, of course we had Fort docks with the tanks. So living in that environment was awesome for me. And, um, what happened was the secretary of defense at the time, decided that they didn't want women to serve in forward units because they might be in harm's way.
[00:11:25] And so, um, my husband and I, who was also a military police officer university of south Florida, though, we both decided to get out and become special agents in the FBI. This was 86 and carry a gun every day with real bullets. Yeah. Yeah. Do you undercover drug work? So, you know, I never looked at the constructs.
[00:11:48] When somebody says I can or cannot do. And I look at my abilities and my ability to
[00:11:54] Eddie: gotcha. And when you, when you join, I don't know if you join the FBI or if you were with the FBI in 1986, [00:12:00] but did you, did you leave the military to do that? So you did leave. Okay. Wow. And did your husband. Join the FBI at that time as well?
[00:12:08] Or how did that work? No, he went first, get
[00:12:11] Marene: him first. I said, okay, you go figure this out. We got, he got us an assignment in San Diego, California, big Navy town. Couldn't really, um, couldn't really hurt us in any way. And so we were out there and, um, we were out there and I was working counter terrorism at the time when the captain of the Ben sends captain Roy.
[00:12:34] Was, uh, his wife's vehicle was bombed. And then I also got to do a nuclear terrorism exercise out there. One of the world's largest nuclear terrorism exercise called compass rose. So I gained a lot of experience. And again, if you don't know, you're not supposed to be able to do something, you can do a lot of
[00:12:52] Eddie: things.
[00:12:54] That's awesome. And so basically from 86 to [00:13:00] 92, I believe you spent about six years in the FBI. Um, and then how do you transition at that point? Cause at that point, you've, you know, obviously it's really cool your first class of women at west point, and then you, you kick ass as an MP and then you're in the FBI, but then how do you make that transition?
[00:13:17] Cause it's all kind of pro public sector type work. And then essentially you, you know, you transitioned really successfully. What was, were you, what were you thinking at that time and how did you make that happen?
[00:13:27] Marene: Thinking about it. And this is where really where sponsorship comes into your life. So.
[00:13:32] Element of sponsorship was when Margaret Hackler decided that I would go to west point instead of the air force academy. She made that decision not knowing me, but just, Hey, this looks good. My second sponsorship in my life was a Lieutenant January. Sam Lexel, uh, he was on the board of directors of a and P foods.
[00:13:53] And there were two other women, which is almost unheard of at the time on their board of directors. They sat [00:14:00] down over a glass of wine. They were losing their head of security and they came up with, well, let's see if we can find a west pointer, let's find a woman. Let's find somebody who has security or law enforcement experience.
[00:14:12] And I was the one. The one and through a recruiter, uh, through Russell Reynolds and associates recruiter, uh, the, the brother of the recruiter sat next to my classmate, Nancy Goolwa and uh, she said, yeah, I know Marine and no internet. No cell phones. So I got a FedEx package in the mail, which I actually thought was a joke, but I thought I'd follow up on it and ends up.
[00:14:42] I got offered the head of security, a VP position at the age of 33 for the great Atlantic and Pacific tea company to head up their loss prevention and security department.
[00:14:53] Eddie: That's really awesome. And did. At the time did that encompass cybersecurity? There was no [00:15:00] cyber yet. That really? Okay. This is like, I can't, I can't, I was born in 85.
[00:15:07] I can't even think about not having a really internet. Okay. So you had a security and, and, and a director of global security then at Avaya and obviously so Avaya, you know, big, big networking company. Um, what, why? And that's after about 10 years, right? At amp. Why make the switch at that time? Finally,
[00:15:32] Marene: finally distributed computing.
[00:15:34] So, yeah, so, so what happened was, is I was there for about 10 years. And I had done a lot of the, um, uh, physical security and then Y2K came in and I had done a lot of the process mapping and data mapping for amp and the it Bob Bittman. And I knew that my real nature was it [00:16:00] and engineering. And so Avaya telecommunications reached out and asked me to be their director of global security.
[00:16:08] And I went through. And it was just as a voice over IP was starting. So that was all about, that's why we can do what we're doing today at is, is because of voiceover IP. And it started. And I got there and I was there six weeks and they decided that they were going to, um, they were going to support. The world cup and their head of it, security left, and they asked me Marine, we want you to take over it security for the world cup.
[00:16:42] So I was able to run the security operation center. This is my first it security job run that the it security operation center for the first time voice over IP will be in a production network in Korea, in Japan.
[00:16:59] Eddie: [00:17:00] Was that scary. I mean, going from like no internet to like run the,
[00:17:04] Marene: if you believe you can't do it, if you believe you can't do it, it is scary.
[00:17:10] I believed I could do it. The mission was be successful. Do you
[00:17:14] Eddie: believe you can do anything? Like, is that, is that basically what I'm hearing here is that like, people are going to throw things at you.
[00:17:21] Marene: I cannot make pigs block, but I believe I can do most anything. I believe every Western. Or academy grad can do most everything.
[00:17:30] Hey, they stood up at math boards and didn't have a clue to what was going on and were able to not fall apart. So yes, you can do everything as a Western.
[00:17:41] Eddie: That's the reason really why we do these podcasts and the old grad club exists is we've felt like people were kind of selling themselves short or they weren't dreaming big enough.
[00:17:50] And then we found all these people like yourself that didn't even think about barriers or challenges they just went and why not? You know? And so. What we want to do is [00:18:00] highlight stories like your own. Cause hopefully people realize that they can do whatever the heck they want to. So, and hopefully the world, I believe the world club, the, it security went well that year.
[00:18:11] And it seems to have gone well, given the trajectory of your career after, but, you know, can you take us through, because you were at Avaya, that was about three years and then Medco. So VP of global security for about five and a half, six years. Is that right? So
[00:18:23] Marene: going over to med. And in 2005, we were actually looking at a couple of legislations that were out there.
[00:18:31] Sarbanes-Oxley came into being as well as the HIPAA for privacy and security. And so those frameworks really taught me how it could impact business and understanding that, and then the governance associated with. Has done me well over the years, because there's a, it's easy to think, you know, it security.
[00:18:55] It's just about it and being a geek, but a lot of it is around [00:19:00] the governance in a business and the translation of it, risk or cyber secure and cybersecurity threat into business risk. And, and today it's, it's very, very. And, you know, today we have the, uh, cyber security and Homeland security is Jen easterly, a 1999.
[00:19:21] And so, you know, the things we couldn't even conceive of have actually come to fruition. Gotcha.
[00:19:27] Eddie: So at what point did you get the call to move, to move over to J and J where, um, where you've been for? Was it 17 or 18 years? Is that right?
[00:19:35] Marene: No. No, I'm not that. Oh, sorry about that.
[00:19:40] Eddie: Oh, it's just 11 years. Sorry. I, the, I was at, I was, I was adding your time in the different roles, so it's 11 years.
[00:19:46] Okay. Apologies. Marine sincere apologies.
[00:19:50] Marene: That's okay. So I came here and, um, uh, 2010. And what had happened was though the Chinese had been [00:20:00] knocking in the banking industry and oil and gas industry. Healthcare. The first hard knock we saw was in March, 2010 by the Chinese. And since that time they were, then they started to suck up all the data of people that could get, they got VA data, um, uh, target, all sorts of healthcare data all over.
[00:20:26] So what happened was the position. When I came over to Jane. I had 26 people on my team, very dedicated professionals at 26. And, um, we have grown over to 300 professionals today. I'm happy to say I have three west pointers and I have three air force academy.
[00:20:47] Eddie: Wow. Well, it sounds like we need to get more west pointers in there then.
[00:20:50] Um,
[00:20:52] Marene: I'm working on it. There's a couple out there that might hear this podcast I'm working on.
[00:20:56] Eddie: Well, I hope so. I hope, uh, I hope it inspires people to join your [00:21:00] team. And I also think it's fascinating that as a private sector, civilian you've had a huge, I mean, that's a, that's a geopolitical. High stakes issue that you're dealing with that from a security front, arguably it might be more important than some of the conflicts, like the kinetic conflicts we've been in, just because it affects every, every American out there.
[00:21:22] And, you know, we've heard a lot about the great work that the VA does, um, through, you know, uh, our first guest was actually bobbing Donald he's a. A big supporter of us. He's great. He's awesome. He's awesome. Yeah, but you've always talked about mission and because you thought you could do the mission, you accepted the mission and you've always excelled at it.
[00:21:39] It sounds like the mission to you was more than, you know, keeping J and J safe. You take a more holistic approach to how you think about purpose of your role.
[00:21:49] Marene: When we all raised our hand, our right hand on the. Um, hopefully it wasn't raining in your head to be somewhere else, but for those of us outside, when we raised our hand and said, I will [00:22:00] defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic, I do that every morning.
[00:22:07] And while I don't raise my hand, but I go out there for the mission and J and J being in a fortune 50 company. Is not only a target because it's healthcare target because it's created a vaccine, but it's also part of the financial institution and is seen as a symbol of the United States. And so making sure that our data is safe, our systems are safe so that my, the people who create the vaccines, who create the drugs, who create the band-aids that are used around the world every single day, they're free to do, to operate without being attacked or having to worry about their systems.
[00:22:52] Eddie: Gotcha. So when it comes to that, like J and J is clearly a global company, right? Like the products are sold all over the world. Is your team global [00:23:00] as well? Or do you focus everybody kind of in the us and they, they secure the whole global network?
[00:23:05] Marene: No, I, you know, I am, I have, uh, the best job on the plant.
[00:23:09] Because of a global job. I have people that are all around the world. There's a few country were over in, I think over 30 countries, we're in, I have people in, but our purview is the entire globe. Well maybe the penguins and Antarctica are safe, but for the rest of the world, we work as a team on a global mission and 24 by six.
[00:23:34] This morning, I'm on a telephone call. Uh we're we're talking about cyber insurance and my team member from New Zealand. And we're all now, aren't you supposed to be asleep right now? And he's like, yeah. Now I had to be here for. And so that's how we tend to work. And yes, we act to Institute the China cybersecurity law, as well as the Russian data privacy or GDPR, or [00:24:00] any of these global regulations, but, you know, Eddie that's what makes it so much fun, understanding all the nuances of the regulatory environment on the technical world, and then ensuring that the company has a problem.
[00:24:15] As well as having, um, threats that are coming from nation states or hacktivists or criminals or insiders to make sure that J and J is secure. And I love the mission. It's awesome. And then to look at all the technology, that's not only in a nit organization like Johnson and Johnson, but also the brand new venture capital and entrepreneurship that we see in that, uh, security industry and how that all wraps together.
[00:24:46] It's like a great big Rubik's cube that I get to work on every single.
[00:24:51] Eddie: That's so cool. And, uh, certainly not a simple problem. So what keeps you up at night and what gets you up in the morning when it comes to, well, you've already told us what gets you up in the morning when it comes to kind [00:25:00] of taking a service, a service oriented attitude towards your job, but does anything, uh, given all the global threats out there?
[00:25:07] Like what keeps you on your toes? So to speak,
[00:25:10] Marene: it keeps me on my toes, but remember I told you, you know, being a west point or nothing keeps me up. Right. Yeah. Math boards, math boards used to keep me up at night, nothing else. Um, you know, I have a team of professionals that I rely on. It's not about me, it's about them and their ability, whether it be in the Intel or incident response, or detect and protect technologies, they are the best in the world.
[00:25:41] And they come and they're all around the globe so I can sleep pretty well at night, but you know, much like the mission when we were in the army. Do I worry about nation state capabilities? Yes, I do. And hopefully our cyber professionals are our cyber security majors. [00:26:00] Are literally hearing this and the hope I have and the knowledge that they are going to be using technologies like 5g and quantum and IOT devices, uh, to help solve the security threat in the future.
[00:26:17] Eddie: Uh, I'm sure they will be. I've recently been connected with them. I think it's named Colonel Ray Blaine. He's awesome. Yeah, he's awesome. And I think he's doing his thing and you know, we're trying to get. Internships and all sorts of different positions. So the cadets can get more exposure, but it's a, I think they're doing a great, like of all the things I think are kind of bleeding edge at west point.
[00:26:36] I think that that's probably one of them, like they really do a good job there and I think a lot of it has to do with donor money. Um, so the small plug for AIG, I guess at the same time when it comes to, you know, we we've gone over a lot of your career from west point to the military to. Transitioning and all your different roles, which have been great stories.
[00:26:57] Let's get into our next segment, the SOP [00:27:00] or standard operating procedure in this segment, we're going to talk about the personal routines, habits and words to live by that have been instrumental to our guests success. One thing that I've obviously drawn out is that it doesn't seem like there's that you, you really do believe that besides math boards, perhaps there's nothing super out there that you can't really do.
[00:27:20] Uh, but is there anything else that like you do on a daily basis, whether it's, um, eat a cup of cereal a morning or whatever it is that allows you to really, you know, be the best Marine Alison that you are
[00:27:29] Marene: every day and nutrition are extremely important. Alex scores and class of 82, who is the CEO of. J and J currently, uh, he has put in a huge program around health and making sure you get out there, you know, run, if you can bike, if you can't walk, if you can't ride a bike or run a swim, whatever it is to make sure you get that activity, to keep yourself your, your mental energy and your physical energy up are [00:28:00] extremely important.
[00:28:01] Eddie: That's big in, was it complete coincidence that. I ended up being CEO. And you were, you know, obviously in a very senior leadership position to change as well. I, how did that end up happening?
[00:28:11] Marene: Well, I actually got my position before he got here. That's what, that's what I thought. Uh, yeah, I mean, and just to tell you the story of a really cool west pointer, This is Alex.
[00:28:23] He was president of one of our sectors, our medical device sector. And he was in the running for CEO and months before we even knew he was going to get elected, uh, selected into the position. He says, Hey Malian, why don't you and your husband and my wife, why don't we go out to. And so we chose a date, uh, three months out in advance in January.
[00:28:49] Uh, and we chose the day we chose a restaurant and the morning he was selected for the CEO position and it was, it was named on walls. I got a [00:29:00] call from his admin and I'm thinking, okay, here he is. He's got some other dinner and I'll be gone to dinner with my husband. And Alex has admin administrative assistant asked me, Hey, Marine, I'm just checking for Alex and pat.
[00:29:15] Um, are we still on for two? I said we're absolutely on. So then I had to stop at a really nice liquor store and get a huge bottle of champagne that I presented my husband and I presented to Alex at dinner. But Alex Gorsky could have gone to dinner with anybody in the world that evening he chose. He had a commitment.
[00:29:38] To my husband and I, and we went to dinner and, uh, uh, 1970s in, in Pennsylvania bucks, county, Pennsylvania. The
[00:29:48] Eddie: Navy. That's awesome. Um, and I imagine that special bond allows you you to, to have in particular, a lot of trust. Uh, as in, I imagine trust is [00:30:00] probably one of the most important things in your role, you know, defending and securing, and one of the largest organizations in the world,
[00:30:06] Marene: um, Alex is big on creating trust with all the senior leaders, because that is how J and J.
[00:30:16] And each person knowing their job and being able to come to the table, no matter what. Whether Dr. Paul Stoffels and, and the far, uh, creating a vaccine, having a team to create a vaccine and then the pharma group able to, uh, bring it to fruition and get it on the street. There's a lot to be said about trust in an organization, a team, a high performing team, and Alex has helped to create that across J and J and uses his.
[00:30:48] And so, yeah, we, we kind of had an Alex was on the, um, marathon team and I was on the orienteering team at the time. He's 82, I'm 80. So we saw a lot of each other out [00:31:00] there on route six, headed out towards camp Buckner. So, you know, You know, you see that. So, you know, people and dedication, and so yes, that helps to grow it.
[00:31:12] And that's, I think why in a lot of areas, hiring academy grads, we know people come to the table. I love it. On the, a use may careers, Facebook page, uh, somebody they say, Hey, I'm interested in X, Y, Z, and such and such a place. And there's five or six. Who immediately jump on and say, Hey, PMA here let's have this conversation.
[00:31:39] And like, like what you had said Eddie about, you know, I'm looking, I'm always looking for good cyber talent. And I just had a conversation last week. I was headed from DC up to west point and there I was having an hour long conversation, uh, with, uh, officer that's getting at. In the [00:32:00] cyber area and about what, what would be best for him, what he could do, what he wanted to do to fit with his work-life balance and, and a company like J and J looks at all those attributes, uh, so that we get the best talent and talent we trust that will accomplish the mission.
[00:32:19] Yeah.
[00:32:19] Eddie: It's great to have sponsors. You talked about how there was two or, you know, a few sponsors that really had an impact on the trajectory of your career. It's great to hear guest after guest week after week, how we have a cohort of graduates that came before us that are, um, that are also willing to sponsor and really be there to support as well.
[00:32:39] So, um, it's, it's uh, invaluable. So,
[00:32:43] Marene: and in Eddie, I think we, as west pointers, we have a responsibility to other west pointers to help sponsor. Sometimes it may be somebody who is a earlier class. Sometimes it's a younger class. Do [00:33:00] we have an opportunity to go with something and there's an extra ticket or an, an extra place at the table.
[00:33:07] Can we have other west pointers that we bring in that might not have that opportunity so that they can have the experiences we are and help us for
[00:33:18] Eddie: our future? Absolutely. And I think it's the only way it can have the. Onto the next segment, the sit rep or the situation report in this segment, we'll dive into what our guest is focused on today and how their vision is transforming the future of industry and society.
[00:33:35] It's been a super, you know, once in a lifetime year and a half that we've had since kind of the beginning of COVID and the vaccine has been on everybody's mind. And now everybody's got the, you know, we have the. The availability of the vaccine. It has to be one of the most precious technologies out there to actually protect from a cyber perspective, how large of the challenge was it to, to keep the vaccine secure and to ensure that [00:34:00] all the different facets of making sure America is strong because we have the vaccine.
[00:34:04] How much mind share was that? Over the last like year and a half, it
[00:34:07] Marene: was our primary focus. I mean, we obviously had other things that we were doing, but one of the most important is what was, um, the individuals that are responsible, whether it be physical security or brand protection or internal audit all coming together to make sure that, um, we could secure not only physically secure the vaccine, but also the intellectual property.
[00:34:33] But in today's day and age, and we saw with election influencing with on Facebook, same thing with the anti-vax vaccination and vaccination. Uh, we saw a lot of what I'll call the hacktivist activity of people trying to influence in sway. Other people. And, uh, you see if I'm Facebook, you say something disparaging one way or the other on or [00:35:00] over.
[00:35:00] And the, the vaccine Facebook will actually put a there's a little warning now. And it's, it's some of those things behind the scenes so that we really could work on making sure people had the right information. I certainly am a proponent of the vaccine. I know there's some people that aren't, it can be a personal choice, but we need everybody to have the right facts and not facts that somebody.
[00:35:27] Either, you know, from Arkansas, sorry, people from Arkansas from, um, uh, somewhere, uh, in the United States, I just used a random place in the United States or China. We don't want to have others influence our people's decisions. They should have the data that they need to make informed.
[00:35:47] Eddie: It certainly is something to see how quickly some of those videos or some of that information can spread.
[00:35:53] Maybe even faster than the virus. I feel like a lot of that, the information flow these days, because we have so much connectivity [00:36:00] is such a, it's such a blessing and also perhaps a curse sometimes. And so another thing that I kind of. Touch on is one thing that, so as we were starting the old grad club, we really wanted to make an impact and also work with AIG.
[00:36:12] We know what we wanted to do, but we didn't know how to do that with the, the academy. We didn't realize once we started talking to EOG that there was this idea or this structure already set in place called the shared interest group, which west point women really kind of brought into reality. Um, I believe you all were the first shared interest group.
[00:36:28] Is that right?
[00:36:31] Marene: Wait, wait, we walked with ALJ
[00:36:34] Eddie: to get there. It's awesome. It's made my life. Uh, it makes our lives so much easier. There's structure there. Um, for those out there that are wanting to start some type of a affinity group, basically there's a program at west point AIG, where if you set up some bylaws and you have, you know, a half a dozen or so people.
[00:36:53] Want to be a part of your organization and you're doing something that is really beneficial to the academy and to west 0.0 gee, [00:37:00] there's something called the shared interest group. That west point women really were the first of a, and it allows you to work with AIG. Also use their, um, you know, some of their marketing resources as well as some of the academy resources that they have.
[00:37:12] And so can you talk us through perhaps how you started or how that all came together?
[00:37:16] Marene: Well, um, back in the day, I think it must've been 2006. Maybe we were going to have a woman seminar and we got west point to say yes to it. And then it, and it was with a bog and USCC. And for those who aren't aware, the academy west point USCC is not a.
[00:37:40] And so there's slightly different rules. I think today the basketball was pro or how many people can gather USCC says 50. So if you have an event that's 50, it asks me 50 or smaller where AIG can actually have a reunion with two or 300 people. So that shows, you know, there's different rules. So we [00:38:00] walked in with west point women.
[00:38:02] We walked the mindful. To create a seminar of at west point. And, um, one of the things was, is we're the very first sold out 500 women graduates attended, and we've been the only sold out reunion or group coming together. Uh, Ellen Houlihan, who was on the board of directors of AIG at the time was instrumental in helping to change.
[00:38:31] A O G bylaws. And this is something I always, this is kind of my, the model or mantra that I say is, is don't complain about the rules. Get elected changed the rules. And so she did that.
[00:38:44] Eddie: Th th I hear a lot of complaints about, honestly, I hear so many complaints about west point. It doesn't matter if you're like a younger, old grad or an older, old grad, I hear gripes like up and down the line.
[00:38:56] But if you, if you want to do something about it, go, go be involved. And I [00:39:00] feel the same way. Absolutely. Get on the board of directors get elected, but certainly, sorry, I rudely interrupted you. Sorry about
[00:39:05] Marene: that. This is fine. It's great. It's a great ad for. So, what we started looking at is w what's the art of the possible.
[00:39:15] And so for anybody who was saying, Hey, maybe this would be interesting. I don't want to write those bylaws. I almost flunked plenty of English. Um, they're up on the AIG website, just take them and then change the names and a couple of places in there. Your. You're just the ARG bylaws. Um, and, and then, uh, we were working with them, but a lot of the same things there, wasn't a really good website that you could hang off of the fundraising.
[00:39:42] How would we do that? So west point women created a 5 0 1 C3 capability. We've been dabbling with mentorship. And so we've been maturing with a O G and the other six now and looking at what we can do. And, and sometimes it's [00:40:00] been real easy while we really shouldn't do that with west point women. And sometimes, uh, what AOJ do it.
[00:40:06] I mean their, their use of Sally port and that email distribution, um, far quicker, right. It that's done instantaneously. Uh, now we're raising money for a endowment for the women's seminar, so that we'll be able to have it talking with Alison Berry over at AOGs. That's so much easier than me trying to do that.
[00:40:30] Hey, I have a day job as a CSO, so I have somebody who has a day job raising money. It's much easier for me and the campaigns and then working together. Um, and so sometimes it was a real easy. And other times there's, you know, I'll probably have to get on the board of directors of Aug, uh, and help change some more rules.
[00:40:50] But for the most part, it's been an excellent relationship in houses, shared interests groups to be able to get off the [00:41:00] ground without having to do a website and a 5 0 1 C3 and membership lists. And, and, and, and they have a lot of administrative tasks. And they're
[00:41:10] Eddie: awesome. Yeah. I personally worked with Terrence sync field, uh, over at once pointed.
[00:41:15] Yeah. He's the best style of Terrence. Yeah, he's good. And, um, yeah, they make it easy, but we've talked a lot about west point women isn't in like, what is. I would like to hear from you what the impact that you want to have with it, because it's, you know, it's one thing to start up an organization and it's, you all are literally the first class.
[00:41:35] Um, but one thing that I think the audience would like to hear too, is like, what, what is the impact that west point women can have? I mean, obviously, hopefully. I got to pray, pray to God. There's no urinals in the women's bathroom still. Um, but like
[00:41:48] Marene: they still are there if you'd like to see them one day.
[00:41:53] Eddie: Well, maybe one day I'll head back there now. Oh my gosh. Um, anyway, [00:42:00] there's gotta be other things that the other things on the agenda that you all are seeking to. Yeah. You
[00:42:05] Marene: know, over the time it's been very interesting. I would say the academy where it is socially is completely different. Um, you know, I had talked about not only was my class first class to have women in it, but we were also the first class to have a black first captain.
[00:42:22] This
[00:42:22] Eddie: is a progressive class, your class killed it.
[00:42:25] Marene: And yeah, I know, I know. We killed it. We nailed it. And again, 62 women graduated, but 81 and 82 didn't have many more women that graduated. And when you see from those early years, we have Lieutenant general Nadia west to restart general army surgeon general.
[00:42:51] And so that's what we want to accomplish. We want to see champions of some of the other social areas [00:43:00] we have seen the repeal of the don't ask. Don't tell women and ranger school. We have almost a hundred women graduates from Rangers. Part of it is a hundred women, less pointers showed up on a lovely August day at Fort Benning, Georgia.
[00:43:20] When the first two women graduated from ranger school. And part of that was telling the army leadership saw how much interest in where women wanted to see. Why women west pointers. Hey, we've done all of the things equally. Uh, with the mail west pointers, we'd been to Buckner. We went, you know, camp Frederick or like Frederick.
[00:43:46] Um, we been to driven tanks and fired, uh, field artillery pieces. We don't see the fact that we're women as a reason not to allow us in those [00:44:00] places and other groups, um, have also seen. Um, and the power of it. And I think that's extremely important, uh, at, for an institution like west point in the repeal of don't ask, don't tell and other social areas, uh, the women, because we've shown up 500 showed up in 2006.
[00:44:25] It also helped to change the words of the Altima. Um, the Naval academy went first. They changed their, our, our event was April, 2016. The Naval academy changed theirs in September, 2006 or 2006 was the woman's seminar. And in that September, the Navy changed theirs. And then the very following year, we changed ours to be inclusive.
[00:44:54] And we hear those phrases today about, you know, unconscious bias. [00:45:00] Inclusiveness, uh, engagement seats at the table. And this is where seeing the class of 80 and all the classes that came after us. You know, we were the first ones down the trail, but we weren't gonna that trail. Wasn't going to be open to the thousands and thousands of west pointers.
[00:45:20] Who've come afterwards to make sure that permanent change has not only having at west point. But also in the army and our military edit believe this. So you used to be, have to be five eight to fly a helicopter. And so they didn't allow women to fly helicopters because a good portion of women were below five eight.
[00:45:47] And once they changed that they could actually have a seat that moves back and forth. Yeah. We now have men under five eight who can fly.
[00:45:57] Eddie: No, you don't say they [00:46:00] opened up. They too. Oh, that's
[00:46:03] Marene: funny. I mean, it's just, you know, it was, oh, well, women can't fly helicopters. It was based on a physical height difference.
[00:46:12] And the reality was, you know, I'm five, eight, so I could, I could have made it. I have friends that are six foot, they could have made it. And, but now we have, we were inclusive. Um, shorten
[00:46:23] Eddie: them to, well, Hey, I think I just crossed the threshold so I can look up to her, but you'd think if you can get something to fly and stand still in the air, you can get a sh a seat to move a little bit, you know?
[00:46:36] Um,
[00:46:37] Marene: we don't have all the technology that went in there, you know, adjustable seats shouldn't have been terrible. It's mechanical. It's really not that big a deal.
[00:46:45] Eddie: That's right. That's right. All right. It's time for our final. Giving back. I could see so many younger graduates identifying with you for a host of different reasons.
[00:46:56] One is because they're, maybe they are interested in reaching the top of their [00:47:00] field and whatever it is, but especially cybersecurity, maybe it's because they are women that, you know, even though they didn't perhaps go through what you went through, they're still going through something when it comes to both the military and the private sector and transitioning and trying to reach the C-suite.
[00:47:16] But what would be your advice to. Whoever you want to speak to out there, uh, when it comes to things that have served you well in your
[00:47:24] Marene: life. Yeah. I think a couple of things, west point is pretty interesting. A lot of times if your cadet experience wasn't that good, some people just don't feel like going back.
[00:47:36] And it took a while. I went back to my, my fifth year reunion and then the 10th year, and it was by the 10th year, I kind of dealt with the. Of west point west point. I can do a head trip on people. Um, not just women and, and a lot of people are struggling on academics. I see people, oh, I'm not good in math because I was at the [00:48:00] lower part of my class rank.
[00:48:02] And my math scores were really bad, bad, but compared to the rest of the population in the world. You're awesome. And so what I would would tell people is get back to west point and get through your, your, your. Your relationship with it and giving back to the academy is amazing. It takes a while. Um, sometimes you might think, well, I don't have any, I'm barely making my ends meet.
[00:48:28] I can't give back monetarily, but helping a cadet or having a conversation with someone, um, being kind, talking about your experiences are all things we can do. They're pretty much. And even today, uh, I'll get, uh, either on the internet, through Facebook, the Facebook page or LinkedIn or some other way, um, I'll get, uh, cadets, that'll reach out or young graduates.
[00:48:57] I will, if I see someone that says, Hey, I'm [00:49:00] interested in a cyber security career, I always will reach back and say, contact me. Um, and I will take the time for you. Um, I don't have a lot of time in my, my business. Uh, but anytime I can find a grad or I know a grad is going to show up, I'll be there for them to have that conversation.
[00:49:22] Uh, there's so many graduates that that five minutes, they didn't know, made a difference in my life. And I want to make sure that five minutes or 10 minutes or hour I can give somebody makes the. And their life. And it's not that I'm the Oracle of all great knowledge. I'm not, I have an opinion. Um, I'm not afraid to express it.
[00:49:43] I'll express it. And then people can make with their own judgment, uh, what they want to do, what they need to do. And what's right for them. I'm never going to try to suede somebody one way or the other. I'm going to give them the knowledge and expertise that I see [00:50:00] from my point of view and hopefully help them to ensure that they're making the right choices.
[00:50:07] Eddie: Oh, that's, that's big and you've given us more than, uh, more than our fair share of your time. So we really, really appreciate it. And I'm, I've picked up so much. The, the biggest thing that I think I've learned from today's session is probably just to not limit yourself, uh, really think that if there's a mission that can be done, like you can, you can probably do it and just go after it.
[00:50:26] Um, but we really, really appreciate your time. Learn from your, you know, from your stories for hours, but this is, uh, this has been great. Thank you so much, Maureen. Um, really appreciate your time today.
[00:50:37] Marene: Thank you, Eddie. And thank you for the program that you're doing and understanding about the special interest groups and actually getting us a great message, uh, out there.
[00:50:47] And, uh, anybody who's interested, I can hook you up. We'll hook you up with Terran Sinfield, cause he's met.
[00:50:54] Eddie: That's right. Terrence is Terrence is the man. He's the
[00:50:56] Marene: man. Terrence is the man. Uh, or [00:51:00] anybody wants to learn more about west point women or a cybersecurity or Eddie will talk to you about his program because it's just awesome though.
[00:51:08] I'm not sure it should be called old grad or mature grad.
[00:51:12] Eddie: Literally. Maybe we can think about switching it, but we'll get back to you on that one. Maureen. Thank you really, really appreciate the time. Thank
[00:51:22] Producer: you for listening to OnPoint. Please take a moment to rate and review the show. Wherever you're listening.
[00:51:26] It really helps us out. Also subscribe to our newsletter@oldgradclub.com and follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn at old grad club. We'll see you in the next episode.