This episode features an interview with Socrates Rosenfeld. Socrates is the Co-founder and CEO of Jane Technologies, the cannabis industry’s first online marketplace that recently raised $100M. On this episode, Socrates provides a framework for making tough decisions and doing what feels right, how he turned journal entry dreams into reality, and the power of feeling comfortable in life’s uncertainties.
“If we can just start to feel comfortable in our uncertainty and embrace it and be patient with it and understand that this is a process that's evolving for, can stay true to ourselves. Beautiful things emerged from uncertainty. And it's really hard, man. It's easy for me to say. It's very hard to do. But I find that the true artists of life, the people who tend to redefine themselves across different chapters of their lives that continue to grow, they've been able to dance with uncertainty and embrace it and use it as a, as a stage to grow. Man, the sooner we realize that as veterans, life becomes not this thing that you must endure, but this dance that you get to experience.” — Socrates Rosenfeld
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Episode Timestamps:
*(3:00) - Transitioning from the military to the private sector
*(7:10) - First stop post-deployment: Guatemala
*(11:15) - Turning journal entries into reality
*(16:30) - Leaving McKinsey and taking the leap and how to take it for yourself
*(20:40) - Starting a company with your family
*(25:25) - What launch day of Jane Technologies was like
*(28:50) - What Socrates is focused on today with Jane and what he envisions for the future
*(33:30) - Segment: The SOP
*(37:35) - Segment: Giving Back
Links:
Connect with Socrates on LinkedIn
Connect with Old Grad Club on LinkedIn
[00:02:10] Welcome to OnPoint. I'm Eddie Kang, founder of the Old Grad Club and your host for today, I'm joined by a very special guest today. Socrates Rosenfeld, Soc, how you doing today?
[00:02:18] Socrates: I'm doing great brother. Uh, great to be on. Thanks for having me, man.
[00:02:21] Eddie: Yeah, it's uh, it's you know, we've had a whole bunch of guests from all day.
[00:02:27] Parts of the private sector, but this is a super special, I think, session where we can find like industries that are perhaps really relatable to the younger audience, you know, the founder of a super successful startup. And I don't know if you still consider a startup, but real company, I believe $4 billion in sales and really servicing a need that is.
[00:02:48] It hasn't been touched in perhaps decades. Uh, and so this is, it's a really great story for audience. Uh, but before we get into, you know, your founding of, of Jane, how did you think about, you know, your [00:03:00] transition from the military into the private sector, uh, when you, when you were contemplating all of that.
[00:03:04] Socrates: So back up, there's actually an old grad, his name is Scott Harrington. We spent some time together at McKinsey and he went on to do other things and he said, you know, We're really good at as west pointers to be the masters of the should in, in high school, you should get good grades. You should be the captain of your sports team.
[00:03:25] You should go to, uh, you know, uh, quote unquote elite academy, like west point, you know, you should push the. Go to ranger school or fly Apache, so on and so forth. And that's the way I really, that was kind of the driving force behind me and my, my decisions career-wise and then I got out of the military and I thought that, you know, if I could take the uniform off, then I won't have to do the should stuff anymore.
[00:03:54] And, um, that wasn't the case for me. I found myself going right back into [00:04:00] what should I do? Okay. Let me go ask people that I respect. Outside of just asking myself, I asked, you know, people and they said, Hey, you should go to business school and you should go to a, you know, a really good business school. So as much as I snuck into Westworld, I stuck into MIT.
[00:04:14] Then I say, okay, cool. Now what? All right, you, you should go into consulting and McKinsey's, you know, at the top of the list, okay, let me go and do that. And it, it wasn't until I actually got to McKinsey that I had, you know, another. For lack of a better term, like, oh, crap moment where I found myself back in the same patterns that I had found myself in the military, doing things I should be doing, but not necessarily the things that I love to do.
[00:04:46] And it wasn't until I started to replace the master of the should with, and this is going back to the Scott Harrington, becoming the master of the self. Who do I want to be? Character-wise what are the [00:05:00] experiences that I'm terrified of, but really interests me, but I've convinced myself because of whatever social pressure or financial pressure, I didn't want to go and pursue those things.
[00:05:11] And. It really took for me to fall in love with this business idea. And I really, I, I overemphasized the point cause I, I fell in love again. Obviously I have a wife, I fell in love with her and still love her. But there was this businessman, this idea that I just couldn't stop thinking about. And around every turn I would try to convince myself I'm not smart enough.
[00:05:35] I'm not good enough. I'm not an engineer. I don't know how to start a college. And at the time I was studying at McKinsey and watching all these other CEOs and realizing they're just human beings, just like you and me. And I only have so many, so many years left on this earth, I'm going to stop doing what people are telling me I should do and start doing the things that moving in the direction of the person I [00:06:00] want to become pursuing.
[00:06:02] If you ever hear this saying, like, follow your. Or, or chase your happiness or do what you love. All these cliche things are real and they're true. And so I quit McKinsey. I was in debt for business school. It was the first time I wasn't getting a paycheck since I was 18. And I thought, oh my God, if I do this, the world is going to collapse around me.
[00:06:25] And it was the opposite of that. Eddie. I wasn't making any money. But I was free and I felt fulfilled and I was, I was working very hard, but I was doing that, which I loved. And that for me was the biggest turning point in, in my post-military career of saying, all right, I'm, I'm done doing the should stuff.
[00:06:44] I'm going to start listening to my gut, my heart. And, um, uh, I'm really glad I did a scary as it was. I'm glad I really took the leap and, uh, I haven't looked back. That's
[00:06:55] Eddie: awesome. And sorry, just to rewind a little bit. So you did it, was it five years in the military?
[00:06:59] Socrates: I [00:07:00] did a seven years in the military. I was an
[00:07:01] Eddie: aviator.
[00:07:02] Oh, seven years. Isn't okay. And then it looks like you were stationed at Fort hood, Korea deployed to Iraq and then got out. You also, um, after deployment went to Guatemala,
[00:07:13] Socrates: I did. I, I got out, I went to Guatemala because I, um, it's gonna be a fun conversation, man, because too many people ask me about my Guatemala.
[00:07:24] So I, I was, uh, applying to business school and at the time I only applied to one business school, Harvard business school, because I didn't know, research. And all I was asking was, Hey, where should I go? This is, you know, I'm letting you into how I lived my life. And, uh, everybody was like, go to Harvard or way back home in Boston, where I'm from.
[00:07:45] It seems pretty prestigious. I had no idea what business school even was. So I applied, obviously, I, I. I did not get in. I'm not going to share my GMAT score, but that's okay. And so here I was doing like, okay, what do I do now? [00:08:00] And it's, it's actually great that you bring this up because I think it was the first time I was forced to actually look at something.
[00:08:07] For any prestige, but that like something that interested me and that was reading this book when I, when I was in Iraq because, uh, a fist full of rice and it was the story of micro finance. And I started to read more of Muhammad Yunus, his book, the founder of Grameen bank. And this is while I was in Baghdad.
[00:08:23] And I remember thinking, my God, like, what if we were doing this instead of perhaps flying my Apache around downtown Baghdad, 24 7, how much of an impact does that really having? Are we really helping these people. All these questions that soldiers should be asking themselves in my opinion. And I thought, man, this would be really, this, this seems too good to be true.
[00:08:46] And so I got out, I didn't get into business school and here I was being like, okay, what do I do? And I was so fortunate to have a network. Helped me open doors to get in and volunteer with Grameen bank. And I told them, Hey, this is interesting [00:09:00] to me. And they say, go to Guatemala and see if this is something that you want to pursue.
[00:09:04] So there I was in pothole shell in Guatemala with my wife a month after I got out of the military, talking about really not fine, like not feeling at home anywhere I look back on that time. It was so special because I was disconnected from everything and everyone. So I was not getting a lot of. Societal input.
[00:09:24] I was there to reconnect with my wife, um, which, you know, for those that have been married in the service, that that for me was a big healing point. But for the first time in my life, I got to witness organizations doing really good things on the, on like on the ground level and seeing the impact of this.
[00:09:41] It opened my eyes to the fact that I wasn't really into nonprofit because it it's, it, it showed to me how they just have such a lack of resources. Unfortunately. And it felt like man, they, they could do some unbelievable things. If only they had the capital. Uh, I said, okay, well I want to get into [00:10:00] business.
[00:10:01] I want to help people, but I want to make my own money. I want to make that I want to have the company making its own money. So I wouldn't have to ask for money so much. And then it is like in the stars. This is what happens when you start chasing, you know, following your heart. There was a research study done by MIT Sloan school.
[00:10:18] In 2007. So it was the research study was four or five years old and it was buried in some back closet in the middle of nowhere in Guatemala. And I remember reading the research paper, emailing the professor from MIT Sloan, and then from there, that's how I started to really take a look at different MBA programs and it resonated with me.
[00:10:37] So I applied, you know, finally pass the test or GMAT or whatever and got in. And so, um, I look back at that time. Perhaps the first time since leaving the military, that I chased something that I chased my heart. And then like the universe opened up for me. I wasn't chasing getting into school or hitting a certain score.
[00:10:59] I was just [00:11:00] doing what felt right. And I wanted to help people and kind of that led to the next to the next to the next. And so, um, thanks for asking that question, looking back on it, it was pretty, pretty special time and in decision of mine to go in and go and help out Grameen, and they're still doing wonderful things across.
[00:11:15] Eddie: And given that green, my understanding is kind of on the microfinance side of things. And you see like, perhaps a whole bunch of business owners while you're working with an organization like that. Do you think that affected in any way? You know, the seed or the inception of the idea of like, Hey, one day I want to start a company or I want to be a founder of a company I'm going to do things kind of the way that I want to do it.
[00:11:35] Yeah.
[00:11:36] Socrates: I think it's funny that I was just talking to someone else about this. I, uh, I brought a journal with me in Iraq and I'm the worst I like, I don't write. I used to, I don't anymore. I used to keep journals at west point cause I was really sad and lonely there, but I'm like, we all were. I only wrote three pages in my entire deployment in the journal.
[00:11:58] The first page [00:12:00] was that I dream one day I could start a company with my brother. That's really what I wanted to do. I don't know when that really kind of, you know, w that seed was planted in me, but I think for as long as I can remember, I knew that I wanted to start a company with Abe and, uh, in the light that up in me or confirm that what it did do though, is money can be used as a force for good.
[00:12:27] It's not just to buy a Rolex watch. Capital can be moved around and distributed to people who need it. And the people who need it, most men don't need a lot. That's what I realized was like, man, these people just need a chance. W Muhammad Yunus and, and his team had done it at Grameen inspired me to say, okay, if I ever start a business, making money as a by-product, I want to, I want to create value in this world.
[00:12:54] And I want to help people. And, um, finance was the kind of the first window into that [00:13:00] and that, you know, going into MIT, Sloan, they do such a great job of highlighting businesses that do well by doing good. You know, that further reinforced that, but really that's what grew me and gave me. You know, number one, capital is a resource that can be moved around to help people.
[00:13:16] But number two, you could start something big, be very successful and you could do it with a conscience. And, um, you know, I think we, we brought that to Jane.
[00:13:25] Eddie: Gotcha. That's huge. It's really, um, I'm trying to. Understand like your path and your mindset as you're going through these different things. So, um, you know, you get out of the military, you go to Guatemala, you have that HBS experience, and then you go to Guatemala, you figure out like, you know, the following, the passion thing actually works out for you.
[00:13:43] And maybe that is, you know, we hear that all the time and maybe you just have to do it. And then you end up at MIT. But then you go to McKinsey again, you, you, you
[00:13:50] Socrates: kind of go, you call me out Eddie. You're calling me out is what you're doing. I mean, you
[00:13:54] Eddie: chase the path again, right? Exactly. How old were you when you left McKinsey and
[00:13:58] Socrates: you highlighted something [00:14:00] really, really important where here I was out of societal input.
[00:14:04] I'm going to follow my heart and look, man, like the assistant Dean to MIT response to my email. Then I get into MIT. And now I'm looking over my shoulder or this person's going to Google this person's telling me I got to go to Goldman Sachs. Right. And like, I got swept up into that again. We all do. So I was to answer your question directly.
[00:14:27] I, at McKinsey, I left in 2016, so I was 33 years old at the time. Kids are no kids, no kids still don't have kids. Uh, Was it a decision? My wife and I have made, but equally terrifying man of like, oh my God, what am I, what am I doing? I'm an adult, you know, um, went to west point, went to MIT and now I'm going to start a startup in the cannabis industry.
[00:14:55] And I'm not even an engineer. And, uh, you know, here we are, but, [00:15:00] uh, and happy to get into to the reason why. But yeah, I was 33 still convincing myself, you know, even after I got out at the age of 29, those four years, I'm still battling that should versus self mastery in. You know, more and more, I'm kind of following myself rather
[00:15:15] Eddie: than the should.
[00:15:16] Yeah. And so eventually you, you take the leap and you say, all right, McKinsey, that was fun, but I'm going to go build a company that I really care about. And I think you did it, you founded it with your brother. Is that right? I
[00:15:28] Socrates: did brother and a few other friends. Yeah.
[00:15:30] Eddie: And so, I mean, as you, as you think about that, like what, what was it that allowed you to have the conviction in so many people, frankly like that we talked to.
[00:15:39] I mean, we've got actually a session tonight called the entrepreneurship through acquisition. It's it's um, like a search fund. I don't know if you've heard of the search fund. Cool. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. There's 250 people subscribed to listen to two of our west point grads that have bought companies through this, you know, search fund process.
[00:15:56] But like a lot of the people that have reached out to me in order to be connected to the search [00:16:00] fund folks is like, they're at McKinsey or they're at XYZ investment bank. And they're like, I want to do something. Like, I kind of want to own my own business, or I've got this idea for something and I need VC funding or like, whatever it is.
[00:16:10] And like, there's so many people that want to do their own thing and you've done your own thing. And it sounds like you started in 16. Eventually you took that leap. That there's a whole bunch, like, I would say hundreds, if not thousands of grads that have not taken that leap yet. And they've done everything that it takes to like, it's the same part of, um, You know, resonates with the part of you that was like, I don't wanna go to Harvard business school after school.
[00:16:31] Cause like that's what everybody does, you know, but what would you say to those folks that have not taken that leap yet?
[00:16:38] Socrates: And that's it like, you know, I'll equate it to a relationship. Are you marrying that person? Because you're on a timeline or the person looks good on paper where everybody else is doing it.
[00:16:50] So you're like, oh, I guess I have to do this too. You know? And I I've been there in terms of. Oh, I just want to start a company to [00:17:00] start it. Cause I just want to do that chasing that is man, like starting companies really hard. And if you don't love it, you're going to quit or you're going to take shortcuts and eventually that's going to be the demise.
[00:17:12] So the first thing is like, truly love is the word. I love cannabis. I love it, man. It's a plant that really helps me. It's always there. It was there for me when I wasn't even there for myself. So I fell in love with this plant. And then I started to see what, what it did for other people, other classmates of mine, other veterans start to hear their stories that it was outside of veterans.
[00:17:39] I started to hear from, you know, parents with epileptic children, with epileptic seizures, or here, like terminally ill people who fight, she find relief and peace with the transition of death. And I was like, I have to do something in this space because this is, this is calling me. And, um, [00:18:00] I, uh, was really frustrated as a, as a medical patient in California, that it was so easy for me as a McKinsey consultant to order a grub hub and a place, you know, get a hotel, just all from my phone.
[00:18:12] And Matt, our minutes we had here was this medicine that I was putting in my body. And there was, it was, it was a pain in the ass, um, to purchase. And I was, I said, okay, let's, let's go fix this. And so it was never about starting a company. Um, starting a company was the vehicle through which I could affect change and pursue my love of this plant.
[00:18:36] And I wasn't a grower and I didn't know anything about retail, but I'm blessed with a brother who is a brilliant computer scientist. And. I told him the problem that I wanted to go and solve. And he said, man, I wish I could fix this. And this is actually a good business idea. And from that point on, man, it was, it was like being in love with, with, you know, uh, with [00:19:00] someone and that someone wants to get in a relationship with you.
[00:19:03] There's no better feeling. And, um, you'll, you'll crawl through over broken glass. You'll you'll fly the, the, the, the red eye. You'll stay up late just to hear that person's voice, man. That, that was me starting this company. And so for the listeners that want to start something that's wonderful harness that don't lose that don't convince yourself that you can't, but open your heart to that, which you love, man.
[00:19:29] And it doesn't have to be a sexy tech company and people are like, man, I just really love senior citizens. I want to help old people and, and, and okay, let me start something there. Um, that's where people get. I think they get stuck is they just say, okay, I want to work for myself and I'll do whatever now.
[00:19:51] That's really, that's a tough spot. So just be patient experience, life, be present, do the things that you love. And I'm [00:20:00] telling you, man, there, there will be ideas when you're run into an issue that you're like, why is this an issue? I, I, this is a pain in the ass for me. I want to solve this. That was my. And then everything else was like, I don't care how hard I have to work.
[00:20:13] I don't care that I make no money I'm in love. And for those that have ever been in love, you know, that, that's what, that's the real power. So that's what I would, that's my, my, my suggestion. And I know it sounds so cliched and it's like, cool, man, you do do what you love. Sweet. Um, but I'm telling you, man, it's, it's the damn truth.
[00:20:31] And, uh, you can't force it just like you can't force love, but when you find it, man, don't, don't, uh, don't convince yourself otherwise.
[00:20:39] Eddie: You can call it cliche, but it's when it, when, you know, speaker after speaker or guest after guest, where people have done things that have been amazing, they've been able to push themselves to a, perhaps like an unnatural state in order to accomplish something.
[00:20:52] Uh, kind of like, I would guess that. Too with Jane, it takes something that like an extraordinary power to motivate yourself, to go [00:21:00] above and beyond and put yourself through, you know, broken glass or whatever. However you want to talk about it, but it definitely requires that. What was it like starting a company with your brother?
[00:21:09] I mean, it sounds like you both. Different pieces to the table when it comes to founding a company, but at the same time, it's your brother. And if your, your relationship, you had brothers, anything like mine with my family, like you get into arguments over silly stuff sometimes. And like, how has, how has that, how has that worked out?
[00:21:24] May
[00:21:24] Socrates: I, I can't even put it into words, to be honest with you, Eddie. It's really since kind of in, and my sister works at the company too. And so if she's ever listening to this show equally the same deal, but she's always been out on her own and independent, and we had to convince her to come in and we're so glad that.
[00:21:39] But even I, uh, Abe is my, my brother. We have an age difference of about six, seven years. And so growing up there was never really any competition, you know? Cause he's just a little dude. He can whip my button now cause I'm an old guy, but you know, growing up, it wasn't like we're two years together, a year apart.
[00:21:58] And it was more of [00:22:00] a really, truly older brother, younger brother vibe. And there was always love and respect there always. And then I got out of the army and. We had to reconnect this Pierce no longer older brother, younger brother, but just two young men who respect and love each other. And, um, I think Abe saw what cannabis did for me.
[00:22:19] I don't think that I know that we were roommates. I moved out. I didn't, we didn't have a place to stay. So my wife and I lived with him in an apartment in Boston. We like crashed his apartment. May that first year was the first year
[00:22:31] was
[00:22:31] Socrates: rough. It's humbling. I
[00:22:32] Eddie: think. I mean, yeah,
[00:22:34] Socrates: it was. And. He was there when I consumed my first joint and he saw the progression of, of how I started to come really come back home to myself.
[00:22:47] And, uh, it's not just because of cannabis, but cannabis helped me heal. And I think when I came to him with this idea, he was like, yeah, man, I believe in this as much as you do. And, um, [00:23:00] there's been nothing but just love and respect. We get in our arguments. Absolutely. But if done in a way where it's just ultimate trust, no one's taking anything personally and we're trying to do what's right for the business and the company for the founders, you know, listening that stuff the way you, you relate to your founding team.
[00:23:19] That's the DNA that the, the company culture is built upon. And I couldn't think of a better circumstance than real love, real transparency, real respect at its most purest. And now that's permeated down to the, you know, the a hundred employees that we work alongside with at Jane. And, um, yeah, that's really important as a founding team, whether it's your blood relative or not, man, that needs to be like blood to where it's trust and respect and honesty and love for each other.
[00:23:51] And the mission. And, um, I couldn't be more grateful for Abe quitting his job at a startup, a very cush job and joining me, um, and [00:24:00] his wife and, you know, coming over. And taking this wild journey and, um, you know, we, we, we wouldn't be here without them and the other founders for them,
[00:24:07] Eddie: it sounds like a modern day version of a family story that, you know, family business type story of like, Hey, like let's, let's all get an, a, you know, live together and like figure this out.
[00:24:19] And like, you know, everybody's, you know, w and what's wild to me is that I see that as a VC investor, I see that all the time for like, people. Mid twenties, a young twenties. One thing that I find that it's hard for a lot of the listeners out there is that you, when you get out, you're already at the very early, like youngest 27, and then like maybe you go through this business school phase or whatever it is.
[00:24:39] And then by before you know, it, you're kind of like mid thirties. Um, and it just creeps up on you and the sacrifices that you can make in your mid thirties. Sometimes aren't the same sacrifices you can make in your like young twenties or mid twenties. When a lot of other folks are founding businesses, you know, more, more credit on the convictions.
[00:24:56] And the heart and the love and all the sacrifice, [00:25:00] the risk, you know, to, in being willing to take all that on, um, for you and your families at that age onto the next segment, the sit rep or the situation report in this segment, we'll dive into what our guest is focused on today and how their vision is transforming the future of industry and society.
[00:25:18] I kind of want to dig into Jane and like, better understand like the business where you are like today. Uh there's. Can you talk, talk to me about like the first time you launched it, like, what was that like? Was it mad? Was it mad success right away? Like how did, how did things work out for you?
[00:25:34] Socrates: Uh, it's the opposite of mad success because that's what we experienced then
[00:25:39] Eddie: my RNA.
[00:25:39] That would be the opposite. Yeah.
[00:25:42] Socrates: Yeah. Uh, man, um, we're about to launch, I thought we were going to launch a year earlier than we did. That's how inexperienced I was a CEO. I was like, cool. Yeah, we're going to build this tech. Like three months and it actually took a year and three months. So we all have all [00:26:00] days know it was a long year.
[00:26:01] It landed on April 20th, 2017, which is four 20. So for those who are hip, this is like the big, this is the holiday for cannabis consumers. So we're like, okay, this is going to be great. We're going to launch in Santa Cruz in Santa Cruz, UCLA, the university here has a place called. Uh, where on four 20 thousands of students and thousands of people within the Santa Cruz community flocked to this open pasture and celebrate four 20.
[00:26:32] Right. And we're like, man, there is no better place to launch Jane at the meadow on four 20. And I had these like grand visions of us, like handing out pins and stickers and papers and thousands of college students signing up and, you know, People celebrating and, you know, mark Zuckerberg, give me a call that day.
[00:26:53] Be like, wow man. Great launch. How many thousands did you get saw? How many? How many thousands? Zero. [00:27:00] Thousands. Yeah, I got zero straight up zero man. We had, so, um, we had zero signups that day and, uh, All we did was go back to work the next day and, and stay at it. And, you know, in the first week I think we had like four signups and then six signups.
[00:27:20] And then, you know, now, now we put on three, 400,000 new shoppers to our platform. Every, every single month we don't have to hand out stickers anymore. And so the coolest thing I ever did in the military was go to ranger school. I say, and, um, ranger school taught me, just put one foot in front of the other at times, even when you're like, I have no idea where I'm going.
[00:27:38] I have no idea what I'm doing. But man, I am just not going to quit and we didn't. And, um, you know, I'm so grateful for the early customers who took a shot on a platform that no one had heard about in a time when cannabis was still illegal in California. Um, for the most part, it had to be a medical market.[00:28:00]
[00:28:01] Yeah. Uh, the, this concept of launch and it's going to be an easy success that trained me to realize anytime you're going from zero to one on any new business launch, we've launched a few businesses within Jane man-like. It's not, it's not what you do on launch day. It's what you do with the years after launch day, that will set the trajectory of your business.
[00:28:21] It's a grind and it takes discipline and dedication and commitment and persistence. Not unlike anything else we've ever done in this world. And. Yeah, it was a good lesson learned, man, for sure. I still have those, some of those pins. So it'll make it in the Jane Hall of fame one of these days.
[00:28:35] Eddie: Yeah, it's a, it like, I, I equate that to like, if you walk to, um, like the square headquarters and you see like the original diagrams on like a, a napkin for like the dongle, which is like, you know, a huge, like half the size of an iPhone and nobody would ever use it probably.
[00:28:50] Um, but that'll be your pin and, um, w and so what's going on. Like today. So obviously you've come a long way since launched in zero [00:29:00] signups. Now the boom, the business is booming. People are, you know, obviously like it's within the community. Like everybody kind of knows what, you know, what Jane is. What's next?
[00:29:10] Like, where are you focused on right now? Like where does your mind kind of gravitate towards as a CEO given you've got like a real company here.
[00:29:16] Socrates: It's a great question. And maybe the answer is a little underwhelming or surprise. But I've come back full circle now to where the most important product we produce at Jane is our people.
[00:29:30] That's where my focus is now we're a hundred employees just raised a big round. And, uh, like we learned in the military. Right. And it's like, you can't do anything on your own. And now the dream of Jane, the vision of Jane is not just mine or the founding team. It's everyone's at the company and for me it's how do I, how do I continue to scale this business?
[00:29:53] How do we continue to scale this business and not lose our culture? Not lose the soul, not lose the vision. [00:30:00] And so I'm pretty deep on people. I interview every single new employee that comes. I don't know how much longer I'll be able to do that, but it's very important to me. I meet with every new hire and my focus is growing those leaders within the organization.
[00:30:13] To take this vision and take it in a direction and trajectory that I, I couldn't do myself and man, we have so many special people at this company who in their own right. Are going to be founders one day and CEOs and there just to work alongside them has been an honor of a lifetime. And that's, that's where my focus is.
[00:30:32] And I think a lot of companies will, you know, they get to a certain point, they find their product market fit and they're like, okay, screw it. Just hire a bunch of people. And go sell and sell and sell and like, and then we'll fire them and then we'll, we'll hire again and then fire again. And man, like at the end of the day, this is all about people.
[00:30:53] And if Jane doesn't make a single dollar, but we've helped our employees grow into better human beings, success. Successment maybe my investors don't [00:31:00] like hearing that, but it's the truth. And it's the only reason why we're still, we're still standing today is because of those, the people so that that's kind of focused.
[00:31:08] Number one, No behind that. I think we're in a position where, where we can do some very exciting things in e-commerce that other businesses can't serving other industries, you know, uh, if you're trying to do this in groceries, man, you've got to compete with Uber and DoorDash and goPuff and Instacart. I mean, you've got to compete with Amazon and Walmart and you want to do this in restaurants.
[00:31:31] You gotta compete with door dash Uber, right in cannabis. They're only a few players in the space who have had the, you know, the position. And now what we get to do in this space is leapfrog. Some of these industry verticals I just saw today, door dash is now launching advertisements. You know, where they can, you can go and sponsor merchandise up and down on a, on a menu.
[00:31:53] And we've been doing that for two years. You know, Walmart's talking about how unbelievable this omni-channel [00:32:00] experience is with curbside. W we did curbside pick up the day, the pandemic launched. It's not that, you know, we're, we're, we're touting our ourselves, but we are just by being in this industry where it's really hard and at some points in time, really scary and uncertain.
[00:32:17] If you can solve problems here, those are problems that other retail verticals haven't even experienced. And so what we are creating in my opinion, within the cannabis industry and not just Jane, but all the other tech players here in partnership with the retailers. We're reinventing what e-commerce and digital retail will look like.
[00:32:35] And that's a really exciting thing. So headless e-commerce is a theme, really smart advertising. You know, now we're getting market basket data that was otherwise just for Nielsen and Amazon. And we're putting that in the hands of these small retailers and businesses. You know, now that apple has seen the light and now allowing iOS apps to launch, obviously that's a focus of ours, of ours.
[00:32:56] And I think we'll be launching our, our app here soon. All [00:33:00] those are very, very exciting, but none of that happens any without the people. And that's where we're priority. Number one is.
[00:33:05] Eddie: Yeah, that's awesome. It's I mean, it's, I think it's something that we all appreciated, uh, from the military, just as a junior officer, really not really doing that.
[00:33:13] Mommy, as a pilot, obviously you did, but for the most of us, like, you know, you rely completely on your team to kind of accomplish everything because it's a bigger mission, but you seeing you translate that and bring it into how you think about Jane. Is inspirational. And I think everybody should hear that let's get into our next segment, the SOP or standard operating procedure in this segment, we're going to talk about the personal routines, habits and words to live by that have been instrumental to our guests success.
[00:33:44] Socrates: I loving all this, you know, AR syrup, you know, we gotta bring it all. We gotta bring it. Yeah. Your TAC officer, uh, would be very proud of this point.
[00:33:55] Eddie: We were trying to keep it, you know, keep our
[00:33:56] Socrates: roots. I love it. I love it, man.
[00:33:58] Eddie: Yeah. So [00:34:00] being at, you know, McKinsey and being, uh, you know, doing time at business school and then founding a company, which I think it's probably like five or six years now since founding it, like, what are the things that you do?
[00:34:11] Whether or not it's on a daily basis on a weekly basis or whatever it is that you keep within your routine that allows you to be the best version of yourself and therefore the best leader of Jane. There are a
[00:34:23] Socrates: few things I do. Health man is number one, you know, at west point in the military, you just beat up your body when you're young.
[00:34:33] I don't know why, you know, but, uh, I used to dip Copenhagen and just treat my body really poorly. I didn't sleep a lot, you know, just awful
[00:34:42] Eddie: things. I don't know. Why did we dip? I have no idea
[00:34:45] Socrates: why, why, you know, I want to ask my, my younger self, like, um, uh, so that's number one. And I, I don't mean like I go out and I ruck March every morning.
[00:34:55] I stretch, I drink water. I get sleep like basic, [00:35:00] basic stuff is what I did. So that's, that's kind of number one for me. I tell you what, man, I wish I had slept more as a commander. It's almost like a pride thing or whatever it is like, Hey, wow. The commander never sleeps. I makes I, I make horrible decisions when I'm not sleeping or dehydrated or I'm tense in my body.
[00:35:21] So that's, that's. That's a thing I do. I meditate again. It's not like I sit on top of a mountain top and like repeat mantras, although for people who do that, that's amazing. I just sit in silence for about 20 minutes in the morning and just connect with my breath. Let my thoughts go through and realize that I'm not my thoughts.
[00:35:41] Just that gentle reminder in the morning really sets a tone for me. And then man, I'm here in, in one of the more beautiful places on earth in Santa Cruz, California, where I can reconnect with nature. And going for a hike, getting in the water for a surf, just wa walking my dog at night and watching the beautiful sunset [00:36:00] over the Pacific ocean that's medicine to me.
[00:36:03] And that that's a really good counterbalance to being on the laptop, being on the phones, being in this digital world, in my opinion, that's, that's not real. The real stuff is feeling the ocean and feeling the breeze and feeling the sunlight on your face. And so I, I'm very fortunate to be in a place in this world where I, I can do that very, very easily.
[00:36:23] And then cannabis men has helped me so much. It allows me to settle my thoughts at the end of the day. If I'm stuck on a problem, you know, on a, on a weekend, I'll go for a walk in the woods and consume cannabis. And it'll usually let me see the problem from a different perspective, thereby find the solution.
[00:36:41] It allows me to just put work away and come back to myself and connect with my. Uh, which is very important in my loved ones. So those are the things I do and nothing in there is super intense. It's just these consistent things that are gentle things that I do for myself that over time accumulate and allowed me [00:37:00] to step inside the arena because it's very intense and stressful.
[00:37:05] And if I can just do those things and I can tell the days that I do them and the days that I don't, I'll just.
[00:37:12] Eddie: Yeah. I mean, I think we all have our things that we do, but routines are important and having, you know, healthy habits and ensuring that, that it's a long game. Right. Um, as you know, your journey with Jane has kind of showed, I mean, it's not an insignia.
[00:37:27] I mean, it's, it's a large portion of your life at this point that you've put into the company, um, and building that team and building the product and it's a huge commitment. All right. It's time for our final. Giving back. And so we've got, you know, a whole bunch of listeners and, you know, I love having you on, because you're on the younger side of the grads that we've had on like, probably much younger, but what would be kind of, you know, your honor, if you had the opportunity to kind of give advice in a one to many sense to a lot of listeners out there, like what would it be, um, for those people that might be [00:38:00] transitioning out or scaling in their career, or thinking about starting a company, like w some unique advice that, um, kind of comes from the heart
[00:38:06] Socrates: again, lean on smarter people that have, have shared some very widely.
[00:38:12] To me. And there's this gentleman by the name of Dave Ru a very successful investor. He started silver lake and, um, he says something so wives to a group that I was a part of. There's a difference between risk and uncertainty and in the military were trained really to kind of treat one in the same, you know, anything uncertain is risky in the military, right?
[00:38:33] Like, Hey, I better know the weather. I better know the enemy disposition. I better know the terrain before. I don't want to leave anything to uncertainty and you do everything you can to remove uncertainty and to reduce risk, even in your careers, in the army. I don't want any uncertainty. I want to know where I'm going to post.
[00:38:55] What's my deployment schedule, what trainings I can get to. So and so forth [00:39:00] at west point. There's no uncertainty from the time you wake up to the time you go to sleep, you just be at a place in your uniform and do what's asked of you. Then suddenly you get a. And there's so much uncertainty to the point where it can be overwhelming stifling.
[00:39:18] And what I've realized is that there is actually a difference between risk and uncertainty. Risk is a, almost a no negative, right? Like, okay, if I smoked cigarettes or I D continue to dip the risk is I know that this is going to cause cancer. Am I willing to take that risk for that next dip? Right. In fact, it was one of the hardest things I've had to do, but.
[00:39:40] But here in life, you get out of the service, nothing but uncertainty, it's not a no negative. It's also not a known positive. And there's so much beauty and uncertainty because uncertainty is unwritten. It's a blank canvas. You get to determine whether this is a [00:40:00] good thing or a bad thing. And so I think for a lot of veterans, they get out and they rush into removing uncertainty in their life.
[00:40:09] I got to get to school. Okay. What's next. Okay. After school, what's the internship after the internship, what's the next, the next, the next, if we can just start to feel comfortable in our uncertainty and embrace it and be patient with it and understand that this is a process that's evolving. We can stay true to ourselves.
[00:40:28] Beautiful things emerge from uncertainty. And it's really hard, man. It's easy for me to say. It's very hard to do. But I find that the true artists of life, the people who tend to redefine themselves across different chapters of their lives that continue to grow, they've been able to dance with uncertainty and embrace it and use it as a, as a stage to grow.
[00:40:51] Man, the sooner we realize that as veterans, life becomes not this thing that you must endure, [00:41:00] but this dance that you get to experience. Oh, I didn't get to HBS. That's really uncertain. I was terrified of it will look what it will. Lakota created, man. Right? Like, man, I'm quitting McKinsey uncertain if there's a future of Jane, but man, I'm just going to go in there and dance with it and look, look when it's created.
[00:41:19] And I, I, you know, it's again, you know, hearing myself, okay. You raise money, you're still standing your company's growth. But even if it went to zero man, cause it's not certain, even if it does go to zero, the journey is the reward. The dance with uncertainty is the reward and beautiful things emerged from that.
[00:41:39] So that, that's one of the things that I would share with the veteran community. And it certainly helped me.
[00:41:45] Eddie: It's, it's definitely something that I need needed to hear. Um, and so, and I know that a lot of other people also needed to hear that too, so really, really appreciate it. We're all up on time, but I feel like, uh, you know, I could continue learning [00:42:00] and really understanding.
[00:42:01] Understanding life, uh, through your lens for a really long time, because it's super helpful. So thanks so much. I appreciate the time and I wish you the best in everything that you're doing as well as your company. So
[00:42:13] Socrates: thanks so much for giving back to the community, man. And, uh, it was a pleasure to be on.
[00:42:18] Awesome. Thank you for listening to OnPoint. Please take a moment to rate and review the show. Wherever you're listening. It really helps. Also subscribe to our newsletter@oldgradclub.com and follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn at old grad club. We'll see you in the next episode.